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PinkFlamingo

New bay bridge plans

77 posts in this topic

The only real feasible way to go would be the Tappan Zee method. I think the high speed train route would be a giant waste of money, and that last line regarding eminent domain being used for a Kent Co route, won’t work either for many reasons.

http://digitaledition.baltimoresun.com/infinity/article_share.aspx?guid=2f3b5901-7d00-415d-922e-464034b67d13

“The cost of any new bridge would be phenomenal. According to The Baltimore Sun, state officials project the cost to be nearly $7 billion. Such a huge outlay of public money should require consensus and smart expenditure.”
“For example, why settle for a bridge carrying cars when we could develop a far more efficient mass transit system to carry people back and forth to the beach? Imagine boarding a high-speed train at a transportation center near Columbia and having your toes in the sand an hour later. Being whisked to the beach in comfort and style is not out of the question at all; it simply requires approaching the transportation problem in a different way.
Another practical alternative could be to do just what New York State has done in replacing the aging Tappan Zee bridge across the Hudson River, which carries 134,000 vehicles daily. (Maryland officials say our bay bridges carry 70,000 vehicles daily.) The $4 billion replacement span features four lanes of traffic in each direction and a path for pedestrians and bicyclists, which is a huge recreational attraction in itself. The new Tappan Zee parallels the old bridge, which will be demolished, and uses the same approach roads, minimizing the expense of building any highways. Using the Tappan Zee model could be a smart solution to Maryland’s bridge problem...”
“It is the idea of an entirely new route that raises so many concerns. A recent meeting in Chestertown rallied folks to speak out against a Kent County bridge crossing....A span from Baltimore would come ashore here, cut through the farmland toward Kennedyville, then link up with U.S. Route 301 and south to Route 50. Eminent domain would be used to seize private property from any holdouts.”
 

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All this for OC weekend traffic between Memorial day and Labor day?

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1 hour ago, boink said:

All this for OC weekend traffic between Memorial day and Labor day?

My thoughts exactly

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1 hour ago, boink said:

All this for OC weekend traffic between Memorial day and Labor day?

 

14 minutes ago, bmore_ken said:

My thoughts exactly

Two really brilliant responses :rolleyes:

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37 minutes ago, PinkFlamingo said:

 

Two really brilliant responses :rolleyes:

Other than beach traffic, what's the real need for a new bridge? Particularly when you're talking billions?

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20 minutes ago, bmore_ken said:

Other than beach traffic, what's the real need for a new bridge? Particularly when you're talking billions?

Many, many people commute daily across the Bay for work. 

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6 minutes ago, PinkFlamingo said:

Many, many people commute daily across the Bay for work. 

I listen to traffic reports every morning before leaving the house, There are never any reports of bay bridge traffic jams in the offseason. 

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15 minutes ago, bmore_ken said:

I listen to traffic reports every morning before leaving the house, There are never any reports of bay bridge traffic jams in the offseason. 

Well that’s the off season. But there are both commuters and vacationers during the on season. 

Look, I don’t have a horse in the race...we go up and around, but another bridge will happen eventually. May as well replace the original bay bridge as it’s approaching 70 years old. 

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If they need to replace the bridge, the fund it with a bond issue guaranteed and repaid by tolls - high tolls, if it's a $7B structure. That puts the fiscal responsibility on the beneficiaries, no? But once the cost is repaid, drop the tolls so they cover the cost of maintenance of the bridge and whatever roads access it (that would not exist without the bridge).

My more important concern is the taking of property through eminent domain, which I believe should be done only in cases of extreme need. Is there an extreme need, here? Sure, vacationers are inconvenienced during the summer on certain days, and likewise commuters on those days. Is that sufficient cause to take what people worked for from them? [My view is that a government should be required to pay twice market value when it uses eminent domain, because I want that to be expensive and difficult to do.]

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2 minutes ago, Evil Yoda said:

If they need to replace the bridge, the fund it with a bond issue guaranteed and repaid by tolls - high tolls, if it's a $7B structure. That puts the fiscal responsibility on the beneficiaries, no? But once the cost is repaid, drop the tolls so they cover the cost of maintenance of the bridge and whatever roads access it (that would not exist without the bridge).

My more important concern is the taking of property through eminent domain, which I believe should be done only in cases of extreme need. Is there an extreme need, here? Sure, vacationers are inconvenienced during the summer on certain days, and likewise commuters on those days. Is that sufficient cause to take what people worked for from them? [My view is that a government should be required to pay twice market value when it uses eminent domain, because I want that to be expensive and difficult to do.]

That’s why I don’t think the Kent Co idea would ever fly. 

Also, there won’t be an access road issue if they build next to/replace the original bridge. 

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There'll be a new bridge the same time they build the MEGLEV....never.

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many bigger needs than a new Bay Bridge.  Weekend summer congestion is not a legitimate reason to spend 7B for higher capacity bridge.

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If we're building bridges, might want to start with Hanover St.  I haven't used the Bay Bridge in a couple years, but chances are it's not literally crumbling like the Hanover St one.

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Bridges have expiration dates. The current bridges won't last forever. And human beings sprawl. Pretty soon the eastern shore will be a suburb of Baltimore and DC if it isn't already. The traffic will only get worse.

This involves some forward thinking which I know is allergic to some people. But we need another bridge.

And yeah it will cost a lot but tolls will no doubt be collected to help mitigate the cost for building it and maintaining it.

And finally, yes, we should help lessen beach traffic. OCMD is a money maker for the region and the state. It shouldn't take 5+ hours to drive a distance that should take 3 hours.

Edited by Pickle20

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47 minutes ago, Pickle20 said:

Bridges have expiration dates. The current bridges won't last forever. And human beings sprawl. Pretty soon the eastern shore will be a suburb of Baltimore and DC if it isn't already. The traffic will only get worse.

This involves some forward thinking which I know is allergic to some people. But we need another bridge.

And yeah it will cost a lot but tolls will no doubt be collected to help mitigate the cost for building it and maintaining it.

And finally, yes, we should help lessen beach traffic. OCMD is a money maker for the region and the state. It shouldn't take 5+ hours to drive a distance that should take 3 hours.

That's why we don't already have a second bridge in the area IMO.

I doubt Kent County wants it.

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14 minutes ago, jonsensback said:

That's why we don't already have a second bridge in the area IMO.

I doubt Kent County wants it.

I would bet money that you are correct. 

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Here is a crazy thought.

Since it is very obvious that the new bridge is really aimed at relieving summer congestion.

How about this; bring back the ferries? I mean that they would run during the 'busy times'...I am sure that building the docks etc would be way cheaper than a new bridge...and the ferries themselves...minimally invasive to the envioronment ...at least as compared to a new bridge....the STATE (see I learned) MDOT ...could run and maintain them...and put them into storage after peaks in the summer.

Hey maybe even lease them out in the off season for weddings and such? And think about all the high paying yearly jobs that could be tied to the ferries....not just toll takers.

Thoughts?

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3 minutes ago, Guido2 said:

Here is a crazy thought.

Since it is very obvious that the new bridge is really aimed at relieving summer congestion.

How about this; bring back the ferries? I mean that they would run during the 'busy times'...I am sure that building the docks etc would be way cheaper than a new bridge...and the ferries themselves...minimally invasive to the envioronment ...at least as compared to a new bridge....the STATE (see I learned) MDOT ...could run and maintain them...and put them into storage after peaks in the summer.

Hey maybe even lease them out in the off season for weddings and such? And think about all the high paying yearly jobs that could be tied to the ferries....not just toll takers.

Thoughts?

Ferries are too slow and the cost would be much higher than the $4 toll for the bridge.

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9 minutes ago, Pickle20 said:

Ferries are too slow and the cost would be much higher than the $4 toll for the bridge.

Hydrofoils. Seems they are all the rage in Europe.

And yes....it likely would be more expensive....but my guess is that the lib/dem/progressive's from Mont. county and such would be more than willing to pay the extra money. ;)

Further, again I have no hard facts....even if run at a loss.... like the buses in the city etc. ....the comparative savings vs building a whole new bridge from scratch.....well I think the would still be better.

And, trying a pilot program....might be a way to find out in the first place....since the state has no problem peeing away money all the time....hey build a pier...try it...see what happens. At the very least...build it in such a way that it could be a private/public project....and it could become a marina?

While a fast rail/mass transit thing is kinda cool ...people will still want their cars...to haul the kids and 'stuff' down de ocean..hun.

Thoughts? Yeah this is admittedly 'outside the box' thinking....but then going to the moon was based on that.

 

Edited by Guido2

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17 minutes ago, bmore_ken said:

I would bet money that you are correct. 

Why would anyone move to Kent county, Queene or even Talbot if you knew a new bridge was on it's way to make your eastern shore home a BelAir, Glenn Burnie or Westminster traffic snarled "burbie".

 

Hope they never build a new bridge in my lifetime.

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11 minutes ago, Pickle20 said:

Ferries are too slow and the cost would be much higher than the $4 toll for the bridge.

Ohhh just thought of this.

The ferry could be marketed 'as a dream destination'. Think about it....a weary family...on it's way to OC..hours in the car...and hours ahead. Take the ferry, take a break, a place to strech your legs...enjoy the bay....have a nice meal while you are at it....all rested up and happy....kids get a wonderful bay experience.

Hey I think I got something here. :lol:

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2 hours ago, Pickle20 said:

Bridges have expiration dates. The current bridges won't last forever. And human beings sprawl. Pretty soon the eastern shore will be a suburb of Baltimore and DC if it isn't already. The traffic will only get worse.

This involves some forward thinking which I know is allergic to some people. But we need another bridge.

And yeah it will cost a lot but tolls will no doubt be collected to help mitigate the cost for building it and maintaining it.

And finally, yes, we should help lessen beach traffic. OCMD is a money maker for the region and the state. It shouldn't take 5+ hours to drive a distance that should take 3 hours.

Good post Pickle.

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56 minutes ago, Guido2 said:

Ohhh just thought of this.

The ferry could be marketed 'as a dream destination'. Think about it....a weary family...on it's way to OC..hours in the car...and hours ahead. Take the ferry, take a break, a place to strech your legs...enjoy the bay....have a nice meal while you are at it....all rested up and happy....kids get a wonderful bay experience.

Hey I think I got something here. :lol:

Guido, a family with a vehicle loaded with a week’s worth of suitcases, bags of beach stuff and kids on a hot July Saturday want nothing more than to get from Point A (their house) to Point B (their hotel/condo.) Trust me. 

A ferry would be a money loser. 

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Just now, PinkFlamingo said:

Guido, a family with a vehicle loaded with a week’s worth of suitcases, bags of beach stuff and kids on a hot July Saturday want nothing more than to get from Point A (their house) to Point B (their hotel/condo.) Trust me. 

A ferry would be a money loser. 

Ok fair enough.....as I said 'thoughts'.

So how about a high speed train as suggested? Opppsssss wait a minute....how about a car train....sometime back the railroads experimented with loading you car on the train...shipped you and the car to the destination...you get off life is good?

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