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sparky1

Why the working man is not getting a better life

12 posts in this topic

So, there has been much of a hullabaloo about companies reaction to the new lower tax rates. The interesting thing to see is how many companies decide to permamantly raise their employees wages rather than give out a one time bonus. 

The logistics are fairly simple. The lower tax rate for businesses is a continuing lowering of their expenses, but companies are treating it as a one time pot of found money. 

St. John Properties is just the latest company to try this ploy to keep wages low.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/business/bs-bz-st-john-properties-tax-reform-bonuses-20180212-story.html

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Businesses can't permanently raise wages otherwise they won't have a reason to say they need another tax cut in a few years.

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The average working man & woman is not getting a better life because they spend more than they earn.

"The average U.S. household owes $16,061 in credit card debt, up from 10% from $14,546 from 2006, according to an analysis released by personal finance company NerdWallet. That figure is still down from the recent high of $16,912 at the height of the recession in 2008."

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Guess I'm Not Average as I carry No Debt, pay off my CC bills every month. On the other hand the City keeps raising my property tax every year while my House continues to depreciate. I could never get what they appraise it for on that bill. My car insurance (that's paid off too) seems to go up every year despite being accident free for decades. Now they've added a Rain Water tax to my water bill. My Co gives us a "Raise" about 2% every year which pretty much just keeps me Even with Inflation. Utilities keep going Up. The Only break I got over the years was the Drop in Oil which my furnace & hot water run on, this is an OLD house! So yeah, I've been treading water just keeping Even for Years. I'm Not Rich but I guess I'm just comfortable if I don't Think about everything too much. 

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15 hours ago, sparky1 said:

So, there has been much of a hullabaloo about companies reaction to the new lower tax rates. The interesting thing to see is how many companies decide to permamantly raise their employees wages rather than give out a one time bonus. 

The logistics are fairly simple. The lower tax rate for businesses is a continuing lowering of their expenses, but companies are treating it as a one time pot of found money. 

St. John Properties is just the latest company to try this ploy to keep wages low.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/business/bs-bz-st-john-properties-tax-reform-bonuses-20180212-story.html

 

+1 great post.  something that the trumpanzees just cant (or dont want to) understand

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14 hours ago, VOSA said:

The average working man & woman is not getting a better life because they spend more than they earn.

"The average U.S. household owes $16,061 in credit card debt, up from 10% from $14,546 from 2006, according to an analysis released by personal finance company NerdWallet. That figure is still down from the recent high of $16,912 at the height of the recession in 2008."

Geez, that's average? I owe like $500. 

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I bet if you did a study on who has the most credit card debt my guess is that 'oldsters' such as myself carry little or no debt. My guess would be that we 65ers....had parents that grew up during the great depression...and a credit card was a short term ...to be paid off ASAP loan.

Not instant money..... that some don't realize....why ....I dunno....has to be paid back.

 

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As it gets harder and harder to enter the country illegally and more illegal aliens are caught and returned  to their homeland... wages will have to increase to keep up with demand for workers.  Going to take time... but it's our own fault.

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17 hours ago, Guido2 said:

I bet if you did a study on who has the most credit card debt my guess is that 'oldsters' such as myself carry little or no debt. My guess would be that we 65ers....had parents that grew up during the great depression...and a credit card was a short term ...to be paid off ASAP loan.

Not instant money..... that some don't realize....why ....I dunno....has to be paid back.

 

Mindless American consumerism is part of the problem.  But on the flip side, the oldsters could get a job out of high school and afford the rent or home without racking up so much debt.  Not so much the case these days.

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4 hours ago, ivanbalt said:

Mindless American consumerism is part of the problem.  But on the flip side, the oldsters could get a job out of high school and afford the rent or home without racking up so much debt.  Not so much the case these days.

Ohh there is no doubt about your statement. However, I'd like to believe that I/we knew  you had to work up to the American Dream....not just plunk down a credit card.

Everything is relative...back in the day...you could buy a loaf of bread for a quarter...but min wage was 1.85. Today that same loaf of bread is around a buck or so....min wage is 7.25...give or take a few cents...both are equal.

No unfortunately, I feel that the 'frugalness' and pay the bills first then the fun stuff attitude that was instilled in us 65ers...has been supplanted by the instant gratification ideal we see now a days.

Look... I am not saying that there aren't 65ers that spend money like water...I know some....I am not saying some 30ers aren't frugal. But I think you have to admit the 'attitude' toward money and debt has totally changed. Being in debt in the past was a taboo....now....'meh'

IMHO

 

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Yea, it is not just that old puritanical work ethic that has had to change. The very nature of money and credit in our economy has changed. The first revolving credit credit cards wern't popularized until the 1960 or so. The nature of work has changed as well. You can not count (if you ever really could) on working for the same employer for 30 years and retiring with a pension. young people out of college can not count on any stable employment, or employment protection, are saddle with enormous amounts of student debt, and can probably count on having a dozen "careers" in their working lives. Along the way they will probably be required to become their own investment professional in setting up their own IRA/403 K or b account to last them into retirement. 

Houses weren't always this expensive. In 1940, the median home valuein the U.S. was just $2,938. In 1980, it was $47,200, and by 2000, it had risen to $119,600. Even adjusted for inflation, the median home price in 1940 would only have been $30,600 in 2000 dollars, according to data from the U.S. Censushttps://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/23/how-much-housing-prices-have-risen-since-1940.html

And many simply can't earn enough money to be able to afford that house.

Home price appreciation has outpaced wage growth in 76 percent of U.S. housing markets during the past two years, according to a new analysis from RealtyTrac. Across the country, home price appreciation has outpaced wage growth by a 13-to-1 ratio, the study found. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/real-estate-price-increases-are-outpacing-wage-growth/

and college, which was seen as a way to attain a higher paying job has not made many things in life more affordable,

Since 1978, college tuition and fees have increased by a whopping 1,120%. During that same period, the price of food has increased 244% and medical expenses 601%. In fact, tuition prices have gone up four times faster than the consumer price index, according to a report by Bloomberg.Nov 8, 2014 

All of this is more than you probably wanted to know about the plight of many millennials, but I think it point out the essential change in America in the last 50 years. The only way to attain the lifestyle of our grandparents is to borrow it.  . . . . . then wait for them to die and use that inherited wealth to pay it off. 

 

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52 minutes ago, sparky1 said:

Yea, it is not just that old puritanical work ethic that has had to change. The very nature of money and credit in our economy has changed. The first revolving credit credit cards wern't popularized until the 1960 or so. The nature of work has changed as well. You can not count (if you ever really could) on working for the same employer for 30 years and retiring with a pension. young people out of college can not count on any stable employment, or employment protection, are saddle with enormous amounts of student debt, and can probably count on having a dozen "careers" in their working lives. Along the way they will probably be required to become their own investment professional in setting up their own IRA/403 K or b account to last them into retirement. 

Houses weren't always this expensive. In 1940, the median home valuein the U.S. was just $2,938. In 1980, it was $47,200, and by 2000, it had risen to $119,600. Even adjusted for inflation, the median home price in 1940 would only have been $30,600 in 2000 dollars, according to data from the U.S. Censushttps://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/23/how-much-housing-prices-have-risen-since-1940.html

And many simply can't earn enough money to be able to afford that house.

Home price appreciation has outpaced wage growth in 76 percent of U.S. housing markets during the past two years, according to a new analysis from RealtyTrac. Across the country, home price appreciation has outpaced wage growth by a 13-to-1 ratio, the study found. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/real-estate-price-increases-are-outpacing-wage-growth/

and college, which was seen as a way to attain a higher paying job has not made many things in life more affordable,

Since 1978, college tuition and fees have increased by a whopping 1,120%. During that same period, the price of food has increased 244% and medical expenses 601%. In fact, tuition prices have gone up four times faster than the consumer price index, according to a report by Bloomberg.Nov 8, 2014 

All of this is more than you probably wanted to know about the plight of many millennials, but I think it point out the essential change in America in the last 50 years. The only way to attain the lifestyle of our grandparents is to borrow it.  . . . . . then wait for them to die and use that inherited wealth to pay it off. 

 

First ...thank you for taking the time to provide this information...it is part of the narrative and worthwhile.

All of what you say is true. However I have a niece and two friends kids that are millennials. All have very good educations, all live with Mom and Dad now....after being out of college for years....and are working marginal jobs or not at all or not even related to the degree that got.

However, they live rent free, have cars newer than I do...way newer and on in particular has a very nice and very expensive collection of fine single malts. They have no intention of moving out, discussions I have (they are good talkers not doers) are always around their high college dept and how much the latest Iphone is.

Now granted ....this is a minuscule cross section....but...three different families....One set of parents have PhD's..the others college grads....and one just HS...but former career military.

I guess one way to put it....I knew the value of a buck (as do others)...I also knew I had to get out of the nest and pay my way...it seems for millineals....well....why leave the nest?

While I am at it.....what you said about what I call 'gold watch' jobs are gone...you had/have to change jobs to get more money because the company sure ain't given it to you. What I find amusing is that some here  ....mock me ...that I could not have had as many jobs as I did...but I did....why?...more $$$$$.

I was and others now in their 60's were the vanguard of what is now common place.

So I guess I was a man ahead of his time. :D

 

Edited by Guido2

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