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Florida shooting: At least 17 dead in high school attack

401 posts in this topic

41 minutes ago, mlatoman said:

What's telling is that, using your own words (manhood, adventure, and control), that attitude was more prevalent decades ago than it is now. Except for things like laser sights, Picatinny rail systems and other accoutrements, the gun itself hasn't changed all that much in 40-50 years. So what has changed? 

Well, society has changed. There is a lack of discipline, a lack of respect and a lack of civility in today's society. Especially in youth. Why else have mass school shootings escalated since Columbine in 1999? The guns have not changed. The ability to procure a firearm is much more controlled today than in decades past. 

But there can be no true discussion on this topic, because many will only focus on the gun and not what is driving those to commit heinous acts that 25-30 years ago were unheard of. Why is that? 

I'm sure many will say "gun owners and SA supporters will never blame the gun, for if they did, they would have to share in the results".  The same holds true for those who have witnessed the degredation to societal norms. They will not raise those issues, as they will have to share that blame as well. 

Agreed,... a lot has changed. Instead of society maturing, we've seemed to take a turn south and actually revert back to our American wild west and cowboy isms! Common sense would lead to the conclusion that this state of societal immaturity is all the reason to take the keys away,... at least until we turn the corner and return to higher state of maturity. Can't count the number of times I've confiscated the keys from two boys after their doing something stupid. Once I was convinced they fixed their 'stupid',... I returned the keys.  

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7 hours ago, ericpd said:

You are so right,... it is as simple as that. Sadly,... I don't think my countrymen will ever see this elephant. At least not for the next decade or so. There are still too many of us who conflate and equate guns with manhood, adventure, and control. Fortunately, it's appears that this phenom is generational,... which means this feeling may just die out in a few generations. Like the dinosaurs they are. If these people had to give up their guns now, their manhood quotient would deflate like a one-bladder blimp with a whole in it. And it is these Americans who feel that their manhood is more valuable than the lives of the children who've fallen after being mortally wounded by a bullet. They're comfortable with that.

i think teventually hat your countrymen will be forced to look the elephant right in the eyes. There is a tipping point and when enough mothers have lost enough chlldren that tipping point will be reached. It's just a shame that so many kids will have to be sacrificed at the altar of the gun gods before that point is reached.

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2 hours ago, bmore_ken said:

Almost 9K a month? Man I picked the wrong profession 

My neighbor, who's a city cop only needs like 2 more years to get that a month in retirement. 

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2 hours ago, bmore_ken said:

Almost 9K a month? Man I picked the wrong profession 

Yeah, we all should have been professional sports players, making much more money and putting our lives on the line every day. :rolleyes:

12 minutes ago, stevez51 said:

My neighbor, who's a city cop only needs like 2 more years to get that a month in retirement. 

He no doubt earned every penny of it. As do firefighters.

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3 hours ago, bmore_ken said:

Almost 9K a month? Man I picked the wrong profession 

Where are all the posters who complain about their taxes being too high?

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5 minutes ago, mrsmlh said:

Where are all the posters who complain about their taxes being too high?

Not to burst your bubble, honey, however pensions aren't paid directly from government coffers. They are paid from investments accrued over years for that specific purpose. 

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1 minute ago, blowboatbethesda said:

Not to burst your bubble, honey, however pensions aren't paid directly from government coffers. They are paid from investments accrued over years for that specific purpose. 

But those investments are never enough to cover the amount of people.

California would be bankrupt paying its pensioners .....

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6 minutes ago, blowboatbethesda said:

Not to burst your bubble, honey, however pensions aren't paid directly from government coffers. They are paid from investments accrued over years for that specific purpose. 

 

3 minutes ago, stevez51 said:

But those investments are never enough to cover the amount of people.

California would be bankrupt paying its pensioners .....

And if the investments aren't enough to cover the promised pension guess who makes up the difference.

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Just now, mrsmlh said:

 

And if the investments aren't enough to cover the promised pension guess who makes up the difference.

Well what could happen is like what happened to the steel workers. They didn't get it.

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2 minutes ago, stevez51 said:

But those investments are never enough to cover the amount of people.

California would be bankrupt paying its pensioners .....

Not necessarily. It seems to work out for most systems, pie-in-the-sky California excepted. Very few government pension systems go bankrupt, although there are a few exceptions.  Private sector systems, not so much, the best local example I can think of is Beth Steel.

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5 minutes ago, mrsmlh said:

 

And if the investments aren't enough to cover the promised pension guess who makes up the difference.

Usually the pensioners, by way of reduced health care benefits and COLA adjustments. . 

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1 hour ago, blowboatbethesda said:

Not necessarily. It seems to work out for most systems, pie-in-the-sky California excepted. Very few government pension systems go bankrupt, although there are a few exceptions.  Private sector systems, not so much, the best local example I can think of is Beth Steel.

California has a 9B surplus. Some problem to have. 

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37 minutes ago, zenwalk said:

California has a 9B surplus. Some problem to have. 

Really? In pensions? Funny, how some seem to disagree  

Quote

Here we go again. Despite modest changes, the state pension system is still far short of meeting future payment obligations.

And that means trouble for California cities and counties and other government agencies, which in turn means trouble for local taxpayers and public workers who could be called on to shore up the system.

 

Quote

CalPERS itself noted in its June 2016 annual report the system was more than $138 billion in debt. The teachers’ retirement system (CalSTRS) is nearly as bad, with $96 billion in debt. Even with stock market gains, pension debts have grown.

Quote

Moreover, changes in pension law signed by Gov. Jerry Brown in 2012 eliminated generous retirement plans that the Legislature offered to public employees, which eventually might bring CalPERS back to full funding because it applies only to workers hired after Jan. 1, 2013.

I guess it's possible that the unicorns have delivered deliverance in such a short time.  Yes, it's an editorial, however it's an editorial that states facts. 

RAWSTORY?

Edited by blowboatbethesda

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1 hour ago, zenwalk said:

That you can't tell the difference between a state budget surplus and a state retirement system deficit is not surprising. At no point in the article about the state's budget surplus is there anything to indicate it might be used to help fund the huge deficits in the state employee pension funds or the state teachers pension funds. The earth is indeed round, and you are indeed incorrect in terms of your math in this instance.

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1 hour ago, Papi said:

That you can't tell the difference between a state budget surplus and a state retirement system deficit is not surprising. At no point in the article about the state's budget surplus is there anything to indicate it might be used to help fund the huge deficits in the state employee pension funds or the state teachers pension funds. The earth is indeed round, and you are indeed incorrect in terms of your math in this instance.

The pension system is funded over 70% as of last year and the budget surpluses are rocking. I'd suggest stop worrying about the world's 5th largest economy and focus on your own state's pension shortfalls. 

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11 hours ago, zenwalk said:

The pension system is funded over 70% as of last year and the budget surpluses are rocking. I'd suggest stop worrying about the world's 5th largest economy and focus on your own state's pension shortfalls. 

The world's 5th largest economy is built on lots of smoke, mirrors, and the St. Andreas fault. I will happily live with the financial condition of Maryland over that of California any day, including its pension system (in which my wife is a participant). :P

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1 hour ago, Papi said:

The world's 5th largest economy is built on lots of smoke, mirrors, and the St. Andreas fault. I will happily live with the financial condition of Maryland over that of California any day, including its pension system (in which my wife is a participant). :P

Then you have a dog in the pension race. No question that pensions are a mess everywhere.  Gray Davis was a huge boob. 

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3 minutes ago, zenwalk said:

Then you have a dog in the pension race. No question that pensions are a mess everywhere.  Gray Davis was a huge boob. 

In my humble opinion the only time in recent memory that I thought California had any common sense in leadership is when Arnold was governor, which sets a pretty low bar. 

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18 hours ago, blowboatbethesda said:

Yeah, we all should have been professional sports players, making much more money and putting our lives on the line every day. :rolleyes:

He no doubt earned every penny of it. As do firefighters.

He sure did earn it that day :rolleyes:

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4 minutes ago, Papi said:

In my humble opinion the only time in recent memory that I thought California had any common sense in leadership is when Arnold was governor, which sets a pretty low bar. 

Arnold stood by as the debt piled up and did nothing but wring his hands. Really don't know what you are talking about there.  It took Brown to turn the mess around. Now there are billions in surplus. Are there problems? Sure, there's always going to be. 

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