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Pickle20

Orioles sign Cashner to 2 year, $16 million contract

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14 hours ago, Evil Yoda said:

He's done after this season and he knows it. He's past caring.

From what Cashner said in his interview, Brady negotiated this deal, not DD. I suppose we just got our first glimpse of the O's next GM

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13 minutes ago, weird-O said:

From what Cashner said in his interview, Brady negotiated this deal, not DD. I suppose we just got our first glimpse of the O's next GM

Based on this signing, The Who already covered the upcoming regime change:

Meet the new boss,

Same as the old boss...

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Just now, Struds said:

Based on this signing, The Who already covered the upcoming regime change:

Meet the new boss,

Same as the old boss...

It sure looks that way. Cashner looks like Miley, all over again. But what can Brady do, what can DD do, what could Andy do, and so on and so on. Until the majority owner is struck by lightning, and it wakes him up to the fact that pitching is actually really important in baseball, this is what we'll continue to see. 

 Instead of Cobb at $16M, they get two guys at $8M each, and then hope real hard.

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26 minutes ago, weird-O said:

From what Cashner said in his interview, Brady negotiated this deal, not DD. I suppose we just got our first glimpse of the O's next GM

So do we now shift from Big Dan threads to Buff Brady threads 

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26 minutes ago, bleedingorangeandblack said:

So do we now shift from Big Dan threads to Buff Brady threads 

No way, we need to milk the Big Dan narrative for all it's worth.

In my estimation, we have all of Big Dan's last season here to post Big Dan complaints. But don't let Big Dan's impending exit get you down. Because guess what! We can also spend at least two additional years complaining about the terrible condition Big Dan left the organization in. Heck, even if Big Dan's replacement builds a post-Big Dan WS championship team, we can still post angry, reflective Big Dan comments about all the terrible things Big Dan did to destroy this franchise.  

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4 minutes ago, weird-O said:

No way, we need to milk the Big Dan narrative for all it's worth.

In my estimation, we have all of Big Dan's last season here to post Big Dan complaints. But don't let Big Dan's impending exit get you down. Because guess what! We can also spend at least two additional years complaining about the terrible condition Big Dan left the organization in. Heck, even if Big Dan's replacement builds a post-Big Dan WS championship team, we can still post angry, reflective Big Dan comments about all the terrible things Big Dan did to destroy this franchise.  

You may want to switch to Decaf! :huh:

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I'm  OK with this deal if Cashner was going to be a 4th/5th starter.  But he will probably slot in as a 2 or 3.  Overall it seems like a fair deal considering set up guys like Tommy Hunter got 2 year deals for 16-18mil total.  Odds are that Cashner will be far better than UJ/Tilly.  I know that isn't saying much, but geez you have to start somewhere.

Two things I found odd.  The Rangers need pitching and they didn't want Cashner back at this reasonable price after he was pretty darn good for them last year.  Hmmm.  Sounds kind of like Cleveland when they dumped UJ after he was lights out his last year.   Also, I found it strange the O's had to defer 3 mil this year so they only are paying Cashner 5 mil.  Payroll well running dry already at 125mil???

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28 minutes ago, Struds said:

You may want to switch to Decaf! :huh:

:lol:

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Another oriole pitcher that has trouble with the strike zone. Jake A had that problem with the O's but goes to Chicago and he's MVP material. Makes you wonder about the pitching staff teaching players how to pitch in this organization.

 

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10 hours ago, mdrunning said:

Well, he's better than just about anything the Orioles had last year.

This might not be the worst of signings. Cashner is a ground ball pitcher and Roger McDowell, having been a sinkerballer himself, usually does well with those types.

At least Cashner didn't come with a draft pick attached.

I don't have a problem with this signing, if they sign someone else also. Despite the naysayers, he's not a Cy Young candidate, but he's better than what we had last year.

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18 minutes ago, bmore_ken said:

I don't have a problem with this signing, if they sign someone else also. Despite the naysayers, he's not a Cy Young candidate, but he's better than what we had last year.

Agree, That's where I'm at with this.  He has a far better chance of being effective the next two years than Tilly does.  With that being said, I fully expect Tilly to be back with the birds. I saw where Tilly has been working out with Brady in Fla,  and with Brady having one hand on the GM reins, well you know the story.  You do know Brady has re-made Mike Wrong's career???  :lol:

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1 minute ago, bmore_ken said:

I don't have a problem with this signing, if they sign someone else also. Despite the naysayers, he's not a Cy Young candidate, but he's better than what we had last year.

Here's a concern that I have. I think Cashner looks like an upgrade, because he hasn't had to pitch for an AL east team. If you look at Miley's career stats, outside of the AL east, they are nearly identical to Cashner's. And look how Miley fared in Boston and Baltimore. That's why this looks like the wrong guy to me. In the NL west, Miley was a runner up to the ROY award winner. In the AL east, he had a 5+ ERA and couldn't go 5 innings.

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4 minutes ago, CROUSEMAN said:

Agree, That's where I'm at with this.  He has a far better chance of being effective the next two years than Tilly does.  With that being said, I fully expect Tilly to be back with the birds. I saw where Tilly has been working out with Brady in Fla,  and with Brady having one hand on the GM reins, well you know the story.  You do know Brady has re-made Mike Wrong's career???  :lol:

If they sign one more starter, I would actually be ok adding Tillman to the mix. But definitely with a short leash. None of that keep throwing him out there if he's sucking like Ubaldo last year

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6 minutes ago, weird-O said:

Here's a concern that I have. I think Cashner looks like an upgrade, because he hasn't had to pitch for an AL east team. If you look at Miley's career stats, outside of the AL east, they are nearly identical to Cashner's. And look how Miley fared in Boston and Baltimore. That's why this looks like the wrong guy to me. In the NL west, Miley was a runner up to the ROY award winner. In the AL east, he had a 5+ ERA and couldn't go 5 innings.

I haven't looked at those numbers so I'll have to take your word on it. Cashner has pitched against AL East teams. 

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13 hours ago, mdrunning said:

That's not true. Duquette is only likely going to leave Baltimore; no one's said anything about retiring. Wouldn't it be in his best interests to try and have a successful season to try and boost his future job prospects?

I can only judge the man by what I see. And what I see is a man who just doesn't care. That might be the consequence of sharp limits on what Angelos will let him do, I'll grant you; it's been obvious for nearly two decades that Angelos doesn't care.

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1 hour ago, bmore_ken said:

I haven't looked at those numbers so I'll have to take your word on it. Cashner has pitched against AL East teams. 

He's pitched 11 games against the AL east, over his 10 yr career. That's slightly above 1 game a year. 

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26 minutes ago, weird-O said:

He's pitched 11 games against the AL east, over his 10 yr career. That's slightly above 1 game a year. 

He played in the AL and only faced one ALE team last season?

Edited by bmore_ken

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42 minutes ago, bmore_ken said:

He played in the AL and only faced one ALE team last season?

I didn't make myself clear. Over his career, he has averaged slightly more than 1 game a year vs the AL east. 9 of those starts were from 2015-2017.  

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56 minutes ago, Thirteen said:

Actually, if you look at his career stats vs. ALE teams, they don't appear to be horrible

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.fcgi?id=cashnan01&year=Career&t=p#all_1754619502

Yet another parallel between Miley and Cashner. Prior to joining Boston, Miley had only pitched a handful of games against AL east teams. His numbers weren't too bad. Then he came to the AL east, and he got lit up. When a team has little to no experience against a pitcher, the advantage has historically been to the pitcher's favor. When the AL east got to see him multiple times a season, they figured him out. My concern is that the same thing is going to happen to Cashner.  

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12 minutes ago, weird-O said:

Yet another parallel between Miley and Cashner. Prior to joining Boston, Miley had only pitched a handful of games against AL east teams. His numbers weren't too bad. Then he came to the AL east, and he got lit up. When a team has little to no experience against a pitcher, the advantage has historically been to the pitcher's favor. When the AL east got to see him multiple times a season, they figured him out. My concern is that the same thing is going to happen to Cashner.  

That could be said about any pitcher they sign though.

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18 minutes ago, bmore_ken said:

That could be said about any pitcher they sign though.

You make a valid point. I'm just always going to be weary of guys who spend most of their career in the NL west, and then come to the AL east. It's a much tougher division to succeed in. 

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8 hours ago, weird-O said:

It sure looks that way. Cashner looks like Miley, all over again. But what can Brady do, what can DD do, what could Andy do, and so on and so on. Until the majority owner is struck by lightning, and it wakes him up to the fact that pitching is actually really important in baseball, this is what we'll continue to see. 

 Instead of Cobb at $16M, they get two guys at $8M each, and then hope real hard.

There are risks involved, but then again, there are risks involved with any free agent signing.

The best thing to be said about this deal is that it was structured in a way to mitigate potential risk. Cashner is only set to earn $5 million next season and $8 million the next. The other $3 million is a signing bonus which is paid in annual installments through 2021, which is a de facto deferred compensation arrangement. The only way the package maxes out is if a number of performance bonuses are reached.

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5 minutes ago, mdrunning said:

The other $3 million is a signing bonus which is paid in annual installments through 2021, which is a de facto deferred compensation arrangement. The only way the package maxes out is if a number of performance bonuses are reached.

In which case it would be a gamble that paid off. 

I'mnot totally against this signing, but the numbers that compare to Miley's pre-O's stats worry me a bit. If  we also sign a true #2 and give Tillman a performance based deal to go along with this, my optimism will modestly go up.

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Just now, Struds said:

In which case it would be a gamble that paid off. 

I'mnot totally against this signing, but the numbers that compare to Miley's pre-O's stats worry me a bit. If  we also sign a true #2 and give Tillman a performance based deal to go along with this, my optimism will modestly go up.

I agree. Cashner is an inexpensive, low risk addition, if he's placed in the #4 spot. And if Tillman is the #5, no problem. Any other configuration of the rotation would reduce the Cashner signing to the category of, "the O's continue to go the cheap route"

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