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High School Recruiting - MIAA Football

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This was an overview in a personal bio that a friend ran by me. It's from a student athlete who was recruited from a PA HS to a MD HS, and then recruited again to another MD HS (McD) a year later. The young man played at McD during his junior and senior year and then went back to his original PA school for his final HS semester and graduation. Does anyone else think that these schools have lost their way? 

Paragraph from student athletes own recruiting page...  

"In 2014, I set a goal for myself to play Varsity football as a freshman at Riverbend High School in PA. I succeeded in meeting that goal  and not only was I a starter and captain for the JV team, but played for the Varsity team as well. I was honored to earn my Varsity letter that year as a freshman. I was then recruited to play football at Saint James school in Maryland for my 2015 season where I was again a captain and starter on both sides of the ball  This past spring I was named to the All MAC team in Maryland for Offense and from there was recruited to play for The Mcdonogh School (for his junior and senior years)".

Has the standard become to play for three HS's in your career and then go back to your home school/area to graduate? The player earned a scholarship, so some might say it was worth it...but if he was this good he would have been found anyway (at the original school). Has the MIAA just become a league of hired guns (McD has had a few of these in all sports recently)? It's a subject that has been discussed numerous times but with this example I am interested to know if this is the new norm or an outlier.  

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Posted (edited)

24 minutes ago, Express said:

This was an overview in a personal bio that a friend ran by me. It's from a student athlete who was recruited from a PA HS to a MD HS, and then recruited again to another MD HS (McD) a year later. The young man played at McD during his junior and senior year and then went back to his original PA school for his final HS semester and graduation. Does anyone else think that these schools have lost their way? 

Paragraph from student athletes own recruiting page...  

"In 2014, I set a goal for myself to play Varsity football as a freshman at Riverbend High School in PA. I succeeded in meeting that goal  and not only was I a starter and captain for the JV team, but played for the Varsity team as well. I was honored to earn my Varsity letter that year as a freshman. I was then recruited to play football at Saint James school in Maryland for my 2015 season where I was again a captain and starter on both sides of the ball  This past spring I was named to the All MAC team in Maryland for Offense and from there was recruited to play for The Mcdonogh School (for his junior and senior years)".

Has the standard become to play for three HS's in your career and then go back to your home school/area to graduate? The player earned a scholarship, so some might say it was worth it...but if he was this good he would have been found anyway (at the original school). Has the MIAA just become a league of hired guns (McD has had a few of these in all sports recently)? It's a subject that has been discussed numerous times but with this example I am interested to know if this is the new norm or an outlier.  

These schools have not lost their way. They just offer a different level of competition. It’s not better or worse than the traditional local public school route, but it is different. It all comes down to a family decision. IMO, the real issue here is bouncing around from school to school, instead of doing the expected research and sticking with your decision. This is not the norm. There are a few situations like these, but not many. 

Also, there are two sides to every story. Interest was shown on both sides. To paint the private schools as snake oil salesman is silly. You should see how many kids show up to the top private spring showcases blabbing about how they were recruited. 

Edited by Silverbullet

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Posted (edited)

Tyler Desue left Bishop Sullivan the Monday after football season to re-enroll at the public school he came from so he could graduate early and become an EE at UMD this semester.

To answer the original question, the Athletes and parents are losing their ways to take advantage of the loop holes that exist within the systems.....but if you think you are going to achieve your goals by taking advantage of them.......might as well do it......surprised more don't do what DeSue did.....WCAC or MIAA kids leaving to transfer back to public for 8 weeks to they can be EE's at their universities.

Edited by araiderfan

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You are right it is all about the $$$, but it is money that is being provided to boys to play athletics. 

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6 minutes ago, KeepItReal said:

MIAA has a ridiculous transfer rule.  "Players who play varisity, if they transfer to another member school must sit out a season."  So what do the schools do?  They put kids on varsity who were strong recruits, but probably not ready to contribute on varsity, solely for the reason of preventing them from being recruited by or transferring to another member school.

Of course this doesn't affect public / private transfers OR MIAA to WCAC transfers.

The kids are just pawns in a game run by the schools.  It's all about the $$$$$

Same rule the WCAC has.  

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26 minutes ago, KeepItReal said:

MIAA has a ridiculous transfer rule.  "Players who play varisity, if they transfer to another member school must sit out a season."  So what do the schools do?  They put kids on varsity who were strong recruits, but probably not ready to contribute on varsity, solely for the reason of preventing them from being recruited by or transferring to another member school.

Of course this doesn't affect public / private transfers OR MIAA to WCAC transfers.

The kids are just pawns in a game run by the schools.  It's all about the $$$$$

And why is the rule ridiculous? If the rule wasn't in place every top player from every team would be at SFA now or Gilman and McD in the past. You know they say Money talks and BS walks

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Posted (edited)

Anyone mind explaining how these schools(McD and St. James are the examples) are making money off of football? Please explain the ROI on giving a kid a full ride(100k+) for 4 years. Sorry, but this conspiracy theory is starting to surpass flat earth on the spectrum of ridiculousness. 

 

Edited by Silverbullet

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Money to kids to play sports at the privates can come in many forms.  First, you have your families with lower incomes, these kids can get direct financial aid for academics and as a bonus, play football.

 

The second way is the benefactor who steps in to pay the tuition for a kid to attend a private school to play sports.  Good Counsel had the Bernie money benefactor.  No only did Bernie Dancel donate enough money to have the football stadium named after him, he also personally financed the scholarships for many football players.  Good Counsel was on top when they had his money driving the program, once that money dried up, Good Counsel cam back down to earth again in football.

 

I personally know a kid who was offered a ride to the McDonogh School to wrestle, he also plays football.  He didn't accept the offer but all he had to do was get good grades, play sports and meet with the benefactor once or twice each year to keep receiving the scholarship money.

 

In each situation, scholarships are offered but not directly form the school.

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35 minutes ago, KeepItReal said:

Private schools sell the myth "You have to play for us, to get recruited by colleges."  Good sports teams also = higher enrollment of full paying students.

That’s not exactly how the private schools sell themselves. The recruiting angle is one part and it’s true. Private schools get recruited more heavily. They offer much more than local private schools in that aspect, so that’s a natural consequence. Sorry, a game between DeMatha and St. John’s is going to attract more recruiters than Watkins Mill vs Poolesville. That’s life. Does that mean you won’t get college looks in public school? Absolutely not. If you’re good enough, you’ll be found. 

Private schools sell their advantages. One of those is competition. Private schools are allowed to play other top teams from around the country. They also get to compete(locally) in two of the best leagues(WCAC/MIAA) in the country. Sometimes they get to play on ESPN. These are huge selling points. 

Lastly, the good sports teams = higher enrollment point doesn’t really mean anything. Do you think McD is hurting for students? You’d be very wrong. Even if you wanted to apply that to a school like SFA, who cares? That’s like saying Notre Dame should be ashamed for using the football team as a selling point to applicants. Again, this is the real world. Competition is a part of life. Complaining about it is like waiving the white flag. 

The fact is that private schools don’t benefit financially from recruiting football players. They just offer something different and have the means to support that. 

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34 minutes ago, KeepItReal said:

If they don't benefit, then why are they doing it?  Because they are nice people?  Ha.  They are benefiting $$$$$$$$$. 

You can say it as much you want, but your theory is as strong as a Bigfoot sighting. MD football teams do not pull in big enough crowds to be profitable at the gate. The big privates are sponsored by athletic apparel companies, but that breaks even at best. There is a reason teams like SJC and SFA have seen benefactors come in and fund them from their own wallet. Unless you can show(you can’t) that there is a return on investment for these private schools then all you’re doing here is thinking out loud and trying to convince yourself. Conspiracy theories are entertaining though, so thanks for adding fuel to that fire. 

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On 3/6/2018 at 3:53 PM, Silverbullet said:

These schools have not lost their way. They just offer a different level of competition. It’s not better or worse than the traditional local public school route, but it is different. It all comes down to a family decision. IMO, the real issue here is bouncing around from school to school, instead of doing the expected research and sticking with your decision. This is not the norm. There are a few situations like these, but not many. 

Also, there are two sides to every story. Interest was shown on both sides. To paint the private schools as snake oil salesman is silly. You should see how many kids show up to the top private spring showcases blabbing about how they were recruited. 

I think you missed the point. My question on "losing their way" doesn't mean I am painting the school as a snake oil salesman. You also mentioned that there was "interest on both sides (meaning school and player)", so I will assume you are a coach or a McDonogh administrator/booster (to know that). What I was asking the forum was simple - we all know the major privates have decided to go with a college model, which is to promote top tier sports across the board and hope that drives applications. But in reality, the only two schools in the area (MIAA) that have had increasing applications year over year is McD and Gilman (and Gilman is more about history of the school and academics than it ever was about the football team). So if you use that as success of the college model, it's not always working or the right model. And as you indicated my question was silly, I'll ask another one - has a high school,even a prep school like McD lost it's way with recruiting (in all sports) when the following has happened over the last few years - (3 years ago - recruited soccer player dismissed for smoking weed in the dorm, 2 years ago - recruited baseball player dismissed for handing out his pain killers, this year - recruited and nationally ranked track athlete dismissed for hazing in the dorm, recruited wrestlers (4) - dismissed for hazing in the dorm, nationally known girls lacrosse coach - dismissed (yes he was fired) for trying to cut UA endorsement on his own without school knowledge. Academics - school had to create summer biology course a few years ago to keep football players eligible, etc, etc.        

So yes, it looks like "they lost their way". When coaches and administrators (and boosters) think that winning at an OOS level is more important than integrity - then something is wrong. If you can't see that recruiting a young man for football from St. James (because he was outside the 45 miles and he would not have to sit out) , which is another MD private (your pooching from another private) after he had already made a move from his home school  is wrong, then you have no integrity. The adults are supposed to lead the way on character, not blame the student and say "well he should have done research and stuck to his decision" hell McD helped him break his first commitment (to St. James). 

In the end, the coach or AD's mentality of "just recruit me a few D1's and I will be okay" is flawed. The correct model is Build a Program! When's the last time we saw a good MIAA team send 8-10 kids to D2 and D3 (in addition to 1-3 D1 players) in a year. The answer is you don't, because every school has defaulted to just recruiting.Just look at the JV programs, most are a joke as coaches run any good player to varsity so they can't transfer if they don't play. That is also the reason the local teams have no fan base. The students that don't play the game could care less as they don't know many of the recruits. I've gone to McD games (and many other schools) when there is just parents in the stands. That's not a win for anyone. 

Long rant over!

    

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, Express said:

I think you missed the point. My question on "losing their way" doesn't mean I am painting the school as a snake oil salesman. You also mentioned that there was "interest on both sides (meaning school and player)", so I will assume you are a coach or a McDonogh administrator/booster (to know that). What I was asking the forum was simple - we all know the major privates have decided to go with a college model, which is to promote top tier sports across the board and hope that drives applications. But in reality, the only two schools in the area (MIAA) that have had increasing applications year over year is McD and Gilman (and Gilman is more about history of the school and academics than it ever was about the football team). So if you use that as success of the college model, it's not always working or the right model. And as you indicated my question was silly, I'll ask another one - has a high school,even a prep school like McD lost it's way with recruiting (in all sports) when the following has happened over the last few years - (3 years ago - recruited soccer player dismissed for smoking weed in the dorm, 2 years ago - recruited baseball player dismissed for handing out his pain killers, this year - recruited and nationally ranked track athlete dismissed for hazing in the dorm, recruited wrestlers (4) - dismissed for hazing in the dorm, nationally known girls lacrosse coach - dismissed (yes he was fired) for trying to cut UA endorsement on his own without school knowledge. Academics - school had to create summer biology course a few years ago to keep football players eligible, etc, etc.        

So yes, it looks like "they lost their way". When coaches and administrators (and boosters) think that winning at an OOS level is more important than integrity - then something is wrong. If you can't see that recruiting a young man for football from St. James (because he was outside the 45 miles and he would not have to sit out) , which is another MD private (your pooching from another private) after he had already made a move from his home school  is wrong, then you have no integrity. The adults are supposed to lead the way on character, not blame the student and say "well he should have done research and stuck to his decision" hell McD helped him break his first commitment (to St. James). 

In the end, the coach or AD's mentality of "just recruit me a few D1's and I will be okay" is flawed. The correct model is Build a Program! When's the last time we saw a good MIAA team send 8-10 kids to D2 and D3 (in addition to 1-3 D1 players) in a year. The answer is you don't, because every school has defaulted to just recruiting.Just look at the JV programs, most are a joke as coaches run any good player to varsity so they can't transfer if they don't play. That is also the reason the local teams have no fan base. The students that don't play the game could care less as they don't know many of the recruits. I've gone to McD games (and many other schools) when there is just parents in the stands. That's not a win for anyone. 

Long rant over!

    

I understood your question, I just think it’s trivial.

A few things...

Kids do stupid things and get caught. Bringing up isolated incidents is a weak argument. You can do that with much more severe incidents at much more exclusive schools from any time period and it means the same thing, kids do stupid things and get caught. Recruiting athletes won’t add or subtract from that, I’m sorry. 

These schools have not lost their way. They have become more competitive athletically because the level of play in this area has exploded. That has a lot to do with the great youth coaches over the last 15 years and any high school or college coach will tell you that. You can either participate or not. Embrace and enjoy it or complain and get run over by it. That’s more of a personal choice thing.

I’m sure you’re a very smart person, but you may be a bit naive when it comes to change over time. Current high school sports isn’t going to look like high school sports that you participated in and that’s ok.

 

 

Edited by Silverbullet

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3 hours ago, KeepItReal said:

It has nothing to do with the "gate".  It has to do with getting full pay students into the school who actually pay for their tuition.

So you feel bad for kids who pay full tuition at elite private schools? I’d have a hard time convincing Ghandi to join that crusade. I will say that private school tuition price has absolutely zero to do with how many mythical athletic scholarships are given out. If that was the case, St. Albans in DC would be smoking people on the football field. 

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Until one can prove to me that these same schools have increased their true academic based enrollment or even giving  gifted arts students “financial aide” at the same pace as athletics, I’m sticking with they have lost their way. 

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Design a system that makes players have to pay a consequence for transferring. They need to sit out a year if they transfer for athletic reasons. If a student moves, or something of that nature than no foul. I know rules like this are in place, but they just need to be enforced. 

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