Duke of Earl

World War I Monument Vandalized

262 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

4 minutes ago, Evil Yoda said:

Your natural rights argument rings a little hollow considering you are one of two big advocates here for a slave state.

Wow! What a blatant lie.  Can't make a valid argument so you resort to the old make an accusation to deflect.  Pitiful and dishonest. 

BTW, lying is evil.

Edited by Smokey 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Smokey 1 said:

Wow! What a blatant lie.  Can't make a valid argument so you resort to the old make an accusation to deflect.  Pitiful and dishonest. 

Do you, or do you not, honor the Confederacy? Please be honest. The reason it wanted to exist was to preserve the slave-based economy of the plantation owners. Any other reason is revisionist, as has been explained to you.

I'm actually kind of glad you're offended. That's your conscience telling you something. Listen to it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

6 minutes ago, Evil Yoda said:

That makes them more, rather than less, evil in my view. Yes, I understand that we have a lot of immoral businessmen in the modern era, too, and mostly this is because immoral businessmen escape all serious punishment for their misdeeds. That does not excuse their behavior, or that of the Confederate "government".

I was never excusing it....just explaining it from a financial viewpoint sans the social aspect.

BTW. while yes, there were slaves in the south...who a property and an asset. were taken care of...food clothing etc....not well but they were...to keep the asset going...now on the other hand....the immigrants ...who came here of their own free will....got a pay check ....and they went back to their slums. Lincoln and the Northern astocracy didn't fight for them. And would have not even acknowledged them if not for unions.

Similar to the slaves in the south....they had serfs in the north. 

Edited by Guido2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Evil Yoda said:

Do you, or do you not, honor the Confederacy? Please be honest. The reason it wanted to exist was to preserve the slave-based economy of the plantation owners. Any other reason is revisionist, as has been explained to you.

I'm actually kind of glad you're offended. That's your conscience telling you something. Listen to it.

I honor my ancestors who fought against Lincoln's treatment of Marylanders.  No one here had to explain anything to me about the reason for secession. That is a straw man argument.

I am not offended, I am amazed at how dishonest some of you can be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Evil Yoda said:

Your natural rights argument rings a little hollow considering you are one of two big advocates here for a slave state.

You are blip'n kidding me.........................

talk about a personal attack.......................my GOD. 

And who is his phantom part of two. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Smokey 1 said:

I honor my ancestors who fought against Lincoln's treatment of Marylanders.  No one here had to explain anything to me about the reason for secession. That is a straw man argument.

I am not offended, I am amazed at how dishonest some of you can be.

32000 posts ....and you haven't figured that out yet? ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Guido2 said:

I was never excusing it....just explaining it from a financial viewpoint sans the social aspect.

BTW. while yes, there were slaves in the south...who a property and an asset. were taken care of...food clothing etc....not well but they were...to keep the asset going...now on the other hand....the immigrants ...who came here of their own free will....got a pay check ....and they went back to their slums. Lincoln and the Northern astocracy didn't fight for them. And would have not even acknowledged them if not for unions.

Similar to the slaves in the south....they had serfs in the north. 

Exactly, I remember hearing about landowners in the south using Irish immigrants for dangerous work because they didn't want their slaves getting hurt or killed.  If an Irishman was hurt or killed you simply hired another one, you didn't lose an investment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

12 minutes ago, Smokey 1 said:

Exactly, I remember hearing about landowners in the south using Irish immigrants for dangerous work because they didn't want their slaves getting hurt or killed.  If an Irishman was hurt or killed you simply hired another one, you didn't lose an investment.

And don't forget the Chinese that worked in the silver and gold mines and help build the Trans Railroad.

But those people are forgotten and overlooked. Because ...they are not easily identifiable....and as a whole...they got their [stuff] together and moved on and upward in the US society. No crutches necessary. :lol:

 

Edited by Baltimatt
Language

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Papi said:

My take on the original post was the complaint that it is now "in vogue" to vandalize monuments (of any sort) to promote some issue, even if the issue being protested or promoted has nothing to do with the particular monument that is the target of the vandalism. The vandalism of the various confederate monuments (some of which was legitimate condemnation of people who should not be honored on public property) started this trend, but it has expanded, as some had predicted it might.

This certainly is the case in this instance. Vandalism for the sake of vandalism seems to have morphed into vandalism to make an unrelated point. Such vandalism is just supremely stupid, in my opinion.

I agree with you entirely. My curiosity is why the neoconfeds at least on this board seem to be upset over what is essentially the defacement of a "Union" statue. Are they confederate symps or not? Can't have it both ways. .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Duke of Earl said:

Resupplying  a military base under armed naval escort in  a foreign,  sovereign nation triggered the war. 

BTW Anderson was given  multiple chances to  leave with honor , his flags flying . 

Can't attack and seize a federal fort and expect the government to adopt your tortured logic and see it as anything other than a naked act of aggression.  By your logic a drug gang can legitimately claim their project as their own property and treat the cops as a foreign occupier.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, zenwalk said:

I agree with you entirely. My curiosity is why the neoconfeds at least on this board seem to be upset over what is essentially the defacement of a "Union" statue. Are they confederate symps or not? Can't have it both ways. .

How is a WWI statue a Union statue?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, zenwalk said:

I agree with you entirely. My curiosity is why the neoconfeds at least on this board seem to be upset over what is essentially the defacement of a "Union" statue. Are they confederate symps or not? Can't have it both ways. .

We respect all   America war veterans and  especially Southern veterans : Audie Murphy , Chester Nimitz , Alvin  York, George Patton ,  General Simon Bolivar Buckner . killed on Okinawa, former Confederate Fitzhugh Lee and Joe Wheeler Spanish American , General Nathan Bedford Forrest Jr . killed with the 8 th Air Force WW II.  We demand respect for our Confederate American veterans their flags and monuments. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, Duke of Earl said:

We respect all   America war veterans and  especially Southern veterans : Audie Murphy , Chester Nimitz , Alvin  York, George Patton ,  General Simon Bolivar Buckner . killed on Okinawa, former Confederate Fitzhugh Lee and Joe Wheeler Spanish American , General Nathan Bedford Forrest Jr . killed with the 8 th Air Force WW II.  We demand respect for our Confederate American veterans their flags and monuments. 

So the union is no longer a tyrannical arrangement. One would presume the passage of time wouldn't change that.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Guido2 said:

You are blip'n kidding me.........................

talk about a personal attack.......................my GOD. 

And who is his phantom part of two. 

The Confederacy was a slave state. Those who support it advocate the existence of a slave state. How is this difficult for people to understand? Some try to convince the world that the Confederacy was about states' rights. Sure - the right to enslave men. That was the basis of their economy and the easy lifestyle of the wealthy plantation owner. They saw that threatened by (slightly) more moral men and they panicked, and started a war.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Evil Yoda said:

The Confederacy was a slave state. Those who support it advocate the existence of a slave state. How is this difficult for people to understand? Some try to convince the world that the Confederacy was about states' rights. Sure - the right to enslave men. That was the basis of their economy and the easy lifestyle of the wealthy plantation owner. They saw that threatened by (slightly) more moral men and they panicked, and started a war.

:lol: Hilarious.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Smokey 1 said:

:lol: Hilarious.

I'm certain you, an advocate of the Confederacy, find arguments against it hilarious.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Evil Yoda said:

I'm certain you, an advocate of the Confederacy, find arguments against it hilarious.

Sorry but your assumptions and judgements are simple minded, self-righteous and juvenile.  Do yourself a favor and take a class in CW history or at least read a legitimate history book before trying to make arguments about the war.  As it is the more you post the more ignorant you appear. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Smokey 1 said:

Sorry but your assumptions and judgements are simple minded, self-righteous and juvenile.  Do yourself a favor and take a class in CW history or at least read a legitimate history book before trying to make arguments about the war.  As it is the more you post the more ignorant you appear. 

You and the Duke are a pair of attempted rehabilitators whose opinions lack much value.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

3 minutes ago, Evil Yoda said:

You and the Duke are a pair of attempted rehabilitators whose opinions lack much value.

At least my opinions are based on actual knowledge from college history classes and books including many primary sources.  What are yours based on?

I am not trying to "rehabilitate" anything.  As a history buff I value historical accuracy no matter how that makes any side look.  In my arguments I have always condemned slavery and agreed with Gen. Longstreet who stated that he wished they freed the slaves and then fired on Sumter.  

Edited by Smokey 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Evil Yoda said:

The Confederacy was a slave state. Those who support it advocate the existence of a slave state. How is this difficult for people to understand? Some try to convince the world that the Confederacy was about states' rights. Sure - the right to enslave men. That was the basis of their economy and the easy lifestyle of the wealthy plantation owner. They saw that threatened by (slightly) more moral men and they panicked, and started a war.

The Corwin Amendment, supported by  Lincoln,  provided   for  the perpetual institution of slavery in the Southern states . The Confederates rejected  it , proving that independence , not slavery was the key reason for secession . 

The tyrant Lincoln wanted the South to be permanent subservient colony to pay for the central government and support northern industrialists . . He murdered 750,000 Americans, including women and children,  black and white and raped and robbed the innocent to accomplish his evil goal .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Evil Yoda said:

The Confederacy was a slave state. Those who support it advocate the existence of a slave state. How is this difficult for people to understand? Some try to convince the world that the Confederacy was about states' rights. Sure - the right to enslave men. That was the basis of their economy and the easy lifestyle of the wealthy plantation owner. They saw that threatened by (slightly) more moral men and they panicked, and started a war.

As you wish....I forgot ....trying to discuss facts and logic from a purely analytical viewpoint with a person who is total driven by passion....is senseless on my part. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Smokey 1 said:

Sorry but your assumptions and judgements are simple minded, self-righteous and juvenile.  Do yourself a favor and take a class in CW history or at least read a legitimate history book before trying to make arguments about the war.  As it is the more you post the more ignorant you appear. 

I guess what amuses me about Yoda....is that one can agree on some of his points.....'half a loaf'....and he still wants the other half....the crumbs...the plastic bag and the twisty. :lol:

My feeling is....unless....we white folk all pack up and leave back to Europe or drink the purple Kool-Aid in stadiums across the nation....he will never be satisfied. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

17 minutes ago, Duke of Earl said:

The Corwin Amendment, supported by  Lincoln,  provided   for  the perpetual institution of slavery in the Southern states . The Confederates rejected  it , proving that independence , not slavery was the key reason for secession . 

The tyrant Lincoln wanted the South to be permanent subservient colony to pay for the central government and support northern industrialists . . He murdered 750,000 Americans, including women and children,  black and white and raped and robbed the innocent to accomplish his evil goal .

I dunno....sounds like the south was pulling a Trump on that one....

Corwin Amendment

The Corwin Amendment is a proposed amendment to the United States Constitution that would shield "domestic institutions" of the states from the constitutional amendment process and from abolition or interference by Congress. It was passed by the 36th Congress on March 2, 1861, and submitted to the state legislatures for ratification. Senator William H. Seward of New York introduced the amendment in the Senate and Representative Thomas Corwin of Ohio introduced it in the House of Representatives. Prior to the American Civil War, it was one of several measures considered by Congress in an ultimately unsuccessful attempt to attract the seceding states back into the Union and in an attempt to entice border slave states to stay.
 
Edited by Guido2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, hst2 said:

Unless, of course, that government takes lands from white folks, it's an injustice. To protect keeping Black folks as property, well, not so much.

Black folks have not been kept as property in this country since 1865. Give it a rest.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Duke of Earl said:

The Corwin Amendment, supported by  Lincoln,  provided   for  the perpetual institution of slavery in the Southern states .

No, it did not:

Quote

No amendment shall be made to the Constitution which will authorize or give to Congress the power to abolish or interfere, within any State, with the domestic institutions thereof, including that of persons held to labor or service by the laws of said State.

"to CONGRESS"

FYI, slavery was ended by an executive order of President Lincoln.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now