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bmore_ken

Harbaugh’s O Line

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They played clips from the Owners meetings on 1057 the fan

Lt-Stanley

LG-Alex Lewis

C Matt Skura

RG-Marshal Yanda

wait for it, wait for it....

RT-James Hurst

This came straight from the horse’s mouth. I swear to God if Hurst lines up at RT week 1, I’ll slit my wrist. :mad:

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On ‎3‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 8:00 AM, bmore_ken said:

They played clips from the Owners meetings on 1057 the fan

Lt-Stanley

LG-Alex Lewis

C Matt Skura

RG-Marshal Yanda

wait for it, wait for it....

RT-James Hurst

This came straight from the horse’s mouth. I swear to God if Hurst lines up at RT week 1, I’ll slit my wrist. :mad:

OMG not again. Skura is a back up player and so is Hurst. I swear, we need 2 more starters. One, preferably the C should be a top flight FA or 1-2nd rounder, and another 1st stringer. Flacco isn't getting any younger, he needs protection. Once again, I feel we should forego the BPA in the 1st round and grab a C or G. I hate to do that, because I love BPA in round 1 but this is just too important......ugh....same story since '96. That was our best Oline,:LT Tony Jones, LG JO, C Steve Everett, RG Blackshear, RT Zeus.

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I can't see them sticking to Hurst, I think they'll bring in a vet FA and draft some depth.  Skura would be ok at center.

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19 minutes ago, alienrace said:

I can't see them sticking to Hurst, I think they'll bring in a vet FA and draft some depth.  Skura would be ok at center.

I'm just tired of guys that are "ok" at the O-line position. I still believe that the line is the most critical position on offense beside QB.

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I just really hope that they draft someone exciting with their first pick.  An exciting play maker because regardless of who is on that line their play making abilities are mediocre at best. Sometimes it's hard to improve a mediocre team than a terrible one. With a team like Cleveland the bar is so low anything is better than status quo. 

I am of the belief that the Raven's need a whole lot more than "tweaking" skill positions and/or improving line play.

Everyone is average and that's why they're a .500 team.

My dream draft is Sony Michel in round 1 and Mike Gisecki in round 2.  I don't have any confidence in them grooming a WR (even a 'plug and play' guy) they could possibly get in the first 2 rounds. I think Calvin Ridley or any of the WR's are lower round 1 talent.

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Posted (edited)

On ‎4‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 1:57 PM, mrdeltoid said:

OMG not again. Skura is a back up player and so is Hurst. I swear, we need 2 more starters. One, preferably the C should be a top flight FA or 1-2nd rounder, and another 1st stringer. Flacco isn't getting any younger, he needs protection. Once again, I feel we should forego the BPA in the 1st round and grab a C or G. I hate to do that, because I love BPA in round 1 but this is just too important......ugh....same story since '96. That was our best Oline,:LT Tony Jones, LG JO, C Steve Everett, RG Blackshear, RT Zeus.

I don't know Deltoid. It's hard to argue the success of the Ravens over the past 20 years or so. The offensive line is an area Ozzie likes save money at and spend on other areas. You know it is the wrong thing to do but there aren't many other teams with a better track record than the Ravens. It's just like having a number one wide receiver. How many Super Bowls champions over the past 20 years or so have a legit number one wide receiver? I'll even give you the Falcons just two years ago even though they didn't win. They got Julio Jones. How many other teams are there? Like him or not, Ozzie's philosophy is proven. Everybody was talking about Jerry Jones a couple of years ago about how great of a owner he is because he KNOWS it takes a great offensive line to win a Super Bowl. How many Super Bowls has he won this century? Jerry KNOWS you need a legit number one wide receiver. They have Dez Bryant. How many Super Bowl appearances have they had with such a great offensive line and a legit number one receiver?

Anyway, I'm sure the line is going to be just fine. Everybody complained about it last year and they really weren't all that bad even with Yanda and Alex Lewis out. Maybe Siragusa will be pretty good as well. I think you stopped watching the games last year, correct? If that was you, I think you would have been surprised how well they played last year...especially Jensen.

I just read that the offensive line was ranked fourth last year and that was with Alex Lewis out and Yanda out. They gave up only 30 sacks last year and only nine other teams gave up that many or less. I'm sure you can take some stats and turn it around but that is what nfl.com ranked the ravens last year. They were not that bad last year. It's just like everyone complaining about Jensen last year. I finally looked him up and he was like the 3rd best center 5 games into the season. It amazes me what people complain about on here. (not you deltoid)

Edited by RavingManiac

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11 hours ago, RavingManiac said:

I don't know Deltoid. It's hard to argue the success of the Ravens over the past 20 years or so. The offensive line is an area Ozzie likes save money at and spend on other areas. You know it is the wrong thing to do but there aren't many other teams with a better track record than the Ravens. It's just like having a number one wide receiver. How many Super Bowls champions over the past 20 years or so have a legit number one wide receiver? I'll even give you the Falcons just two years ago even though they didn't win. They got Julio Jones. How many other teams are there? Like him or not, Ozzie's philosophy is proven. Everybody was talking about Jerry Jones a couple of years ago about how great of a owner he is because he KNOWS it takes a great offensive line to win a Super Bowl. How many Super Bowls has he won this century? Jerry KNOWS you need a legit number one wide receiver. They have Dez Bryant. How many Super Bowl appearances have they had with such a great offensive line and a legit number one receiver?

Anyway, I'm sure the line is going to be just fine. Everybody complained about it last year and they really weren't all that bad even with Yanda and Alex Lewis out. Maybe Siragusa will be pretty good as well. I think you stopped watching the games last year, correct? If that was you, I think you would have been surprised how well they played last year...especially Jensen.

I just read that the offensive line was ranked fourth last year and that was with Alex Lewis out and Yanda out. They gave up only 30 sacks last year and only nine other teams gave up that many or less. I'm sure you can take some stats and turn it around but that is what nfl.com ranked the ravens last year. They were not that bad last year. It's just like everyone complaining about Jensen last year. I finally looked him up and he was like the 3rd best center 5 games into the season. It amazes me what people complain about on here. (not you deltoid)

Yeah I tuned out after game 3 for the first time in my life. At that point Jensen was struggling. I had wifey DVR a couple games after that and you are right, Jensen improved greatly even to the point of showing emotional leadership! Oz had a pretty good formula for the O-line as he Ferentz would never draft high at G , rather they would take 2nd tier T that could play G. They could draft maulers and the running game hid a lot of faults. I think it is easier to get good linemen than a #1 WR. The Eagles are a good example of the effect a #1 O- line can have. They were my pick to win the SB on the strength of their line last Sept.

think of this: with the receivers we had last year even, how much better would Joe look with 1or 2 more seconds to throw, and a top flight running game? Think about it. 

For the record, I still trust Oz. JMHO

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Posted (edited)

I thought the OL last year played much better than I had expected, especially given the injuries.  I'll continue to believe that the big problem with the offense was Marty's predictability and over-reliance on the pass (which has always been his M.O.), which led to a lot of easy defensive reads and Joe throwing balls away / too early because the pass rushers are coming with no concern about reading run after the snap.  100 more hand-offs to the likes of Collins and Allen and company would have gone a long way to creating a much more effective offense in my opinion.

Edited by Ravens2006

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I'm not sure where the high ranking of the Raven's O-line came from, but it wasn't Pro Football Focus which generally does a fairly nice job going beyond statistics and looking at the full picture.  They had the Ravens ranked 18th.  The loss of Jensen, who was somewhat of an unexpected nice surprise, won't help.  But the return of Yanda, if he can stay healthy, should help offset that.  I still think they have work to do.  So far from what I have seen this off season they are not very much improved and will be a difficult pick for a playoff team as their schedule will be a lot tougher while other playoff competitors will benefit from an easier schedule.  But that is at this time, there is still the draft and pre-season cuts to go.  I'm not sure how much they can do given their cap situation so we shall see.  But if I were projecting right now at this time, I would not have them in the playoffs next year.  

 

Quote

 

18. BALTIMORE RAVENS

Total pressures surrendered: 138
Best player: Ronnie Stanley
Combinations used: 26

The Ravens saw average performances at both tackle positions and at center in 2017, but they could not overcome the injury of star guard Marshal Yanda and struggled at both guard positions all season long. Second-year left tackle Ronnie Stanley kicked off a very promising start over the first two months of the season, but was unable to finish the season strong as he surrendered at least two pressures in seven of his last 10 games. In addition, while the Ravens like to rely on outside zone runs, they averaged just 1.09 yards before contact on these runs, which was below the league average of 1.21 yards.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-ranking-all-32-offensive-lines-from-the-2017-nfl-season

 

 

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8 hours ago, mrdeltoid said:

Yeah I tuned out after game 3 for the first time in my life. At that point Jensen was struggling. I had wifey DVR a couple games after that and you are right, Jensen improved greatly even to the point of showing emotional leadership! Oz had a pretty good formula for the O-line as he Ferentz would never draft high at G , rather they would take 2nd tier T that could play G. They could draft maulers and the running game hid a lot of faults. I think it is easier to get good linemen than a #1 WR. The Eagles are a good example of the effect a #1 O- line can have. They were my pick to win the SB on the strength of their line last Sept.

think of this: with the receivers we had last year even, how much better would Joe look with 1or 2 more seconds to throw, and a top flight running game? Think about it. 

For the record, I still trust Oz. JMHO

I'll probably be tuning out this year for the first time in my life. With Directv raising their prices again and me just losing interest, I'm thinking about getting NFL Playback (I think that is what it is called) and you get to watch the game the next day for $100 dollars. If you truly picked the Eagles to win it all in September, congratulations. Now if you can do it two years in a row, you might be on to something big.

what do you think Oz's biggest failure was? I probably should make a separate thread for this but oh well. I think most people will immediately say his inability to draft a wide receiver. We won despite this though. My thought is letting all his scouts go to other teams and not replacing them with more experienced scouts. This is the whole reason why we have not been to the playoffs these last few years. They decided to go young and that decision failed.

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2 hours ago, cprenegade said:

I'm not sure where the high ranking of the Raven's O-line came from, but it wasn't Pro Football Focus which generally does a fairly nice job going beyond statistics and looking at the full picture.  They had the Ravens ranked 18th.  The loss of Jensen, who was somewhat of an unexpected nice surprise, won't help.  But the return of Yanda, if he can stay healthy, should help offset that.  I still think they have work to do.  So far from what I have seen this off season they are not very much improved and will be a difficult pick for a playoff team as their schedule will be a lot tougher while other playoff competitors will benefit from an easier schedule.  But that is at this time, there is still the draft and pre-season cuts to go.  I'm not sure how much they can do given their cap situation so we shall see.  But if I were projecting right now at this time, I would not have them in the playoffs next year.  

 

 

Yeah, I saw that ranking as well. I do not think they had the fourth best offensive line but that is where nfl.com has them. I think 18th is a little closer to where they actually were. I would have guessed about 15th or so. I do think the line will be as good or better next year.

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14 hours ago, RavingManiac said:

I'll probably be tuning out this year for the first time in my life. With Directv raising their prices again and me just losing interest, I'm thinking about getting NFL Playback (I think that is what it is called) and you get to watch the game the next day for $100 dollars. If you truly picked the Eagles to win it all in September, congratulations. Now if you can do it two years in a row, you might be on to something big.

what do you think Oz's biggest failure was? I probably should make a separate thread for this but oh well. I think most people will immediately say his inability to draft a wide receiver. We won despite this though. My thought is letting all his scouts go to other teams and not replacing them with more experienced scouts. This is the whole reason why we have not been to the playoffs these last few years. They decided to go young and that decision failed.

I think Ozzys biggest failure is neglecting the O-line year after year, then trying to patch it up with a draft pick here and there. I’ve always been of the mindset that the 1st and 2nd round should be BPA , FA for need, and the 3rd-7th round for depth. We had a chance to get Mack his first year as a FA which would’ve taken care of C for years. Stuff like that. That’s always been my complaint. You can look at Prescott’s first year at Dallas. Top flight O-line. Billicks offense at Minnesota, everybody gave Moss as the reason they broke the scoring record. They had 3 pro-bowlers on that line and was good for years. Moss was only there one year. Last year the Eagles. Look at Kubiacs Denver years. Behind that line every RB had 1000 yard rushing. But once again, JMHO. I still trust Ozzy.

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Posted (edited)

31 minutes ago, mrdeltoid said:

I think Ozzys biggest failure is neglecting the O-line year after year, then trying to patch it up with a draft pick here and there. I’ve always been of the mindset that the 1st and 2nd round should be BPA , FA for need, and the 3rd-7th round for depth. We had a chance to get Mack his first year as a FA which would’ve taken care of C for years. Stuff like that. That’s always been my complaint. You can look at Prescott’s first year at Dallas. Top flight O-line. Billicks offense at Minnesota, everybody gave Moss as the reason they broke the scoring record. They had 3 pro-bowlers on that line and was good for years. Moss was only there one year. Last year the Eagles. Look at Kubiacs Denver years. Behind that line every RB had 1000 yard rushing. But once again, JMHO. I still trust Ozzy.

But if McGlinchey is gone by 16, do you need to use a first round pick on the line?

Edited by mikemor1

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1 minute ago, mikemor1 said:

But if McClinchey is gone by 16, do you need to use a first round pick on the line?

I hate to do it, and we may not be able to. At this point, maybe we should just admit we gotta rebuild, lower expectations, and build around a solid O- line. I’ll get my blindfold and cigarette now. Fire away.😧

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15 hours ago, mrdeltoid said:

I hate to do it, and we may not be able to. At this point, maybe we should just admit we gotta rebuild, lower expectations, and build around a solid O- line. I’ll get my blindfold and cigarette now. Fire away.😧

The problem with that is Harbaugh is on the hot seat.  You can't start rebuilding when you are putting a coach squarely in the bulls eye.  If next season ends without a playoff birth, then with Ozzy gone and Harbuagh and his staff fired you can start a rebuilding process.  But it is totally unfair to start a rebuilding process with a coach who has one year to prove himself.  If they were going to do that, they should have fired Harbaugh and his entire staff and started over this year.  

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Posted (edited)

6 hours ago, cprenegade said:

The problem with that is Harbaugh is on the hot seat.  You can't start rebuilding when you are putting a coach squarely in the bulls eye.  If next season ends without a playoff birth, then with Ozzy gone and Harbuagh and his staff fired you can start a rebuilding process.  But it is totally unfair to start a rebuilding process with a coach who has one year to prove himself.  If they were going to do that, they should have fired Harbaugh and his entire staff and started over this year.  

I know. I believe the basic drafting philosophy that Ozzy has used is correct. Develop the board, 1st and second round BPA. I think my biggest complaint isn't their system, it's how they USED their system. Especially FA. I've been one of the most strident, even shrill supporters of FA for need, but I believe they messed up the need priority by using so much $ on skill 2nd tier skill players when blue chip O-linemen were available in FA. A top flight O-line can make ALL the skill players better, WR, RB, QB, all become better with a strong line. One of the best examples of a strong line making 2nd tier skill players look like 1st tier players was KC when Grbek was there. He threw for 4 thousand yards to 2nd tier recievers, like Dante Hall, and Kevin Lockett, came here and was demolished. Priest Holmes was a back up here, goes to KC behind arguably the best line in the NFL and wins the rushing title. So, I guess if I were king, I would figure 2018 will be the beginning of a new era, which will be pretty much the same philosophy for drafting BPA, regardless of position in round 1 & 2, FA for need, and later rounds for depth. The change would be, the O-line, which would be the #1 priority. I always wonder how much different Joes career would've been with a top flight O-line.

Edited by mrdeltoid

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9 hours ago, mrdeltoid said:

I know. I believe the basic drafting philosophy that Ozzy has used is correct. Develop the board, 1st and second round BPA. I think my biggest complaint isn't their system, it's how they USED their system. Especially FA. I've been one of the most strident, even shrill supporters of FA for need, but I believe they messed up the need priority by using so much $ on skill 2nd tier skill players when blue chip O-linemen were available in FA. A top flight O-line can make ALL the skill players better, WR, RB, QB, all become better with a strong line. One of the best examples of a strong line making 2nd tier skill players look like 1st tier players was KC when Grbek was there. He threw for 4 thousand yards to 2nd tier recievers, like Dante Hall, and Kevin Lockett, came here and was demolished. Priest Holmes was a back up here, goes to KC behind arguably the best line in the NFL and wins the rushing title. So, I guess if I were king, I would figure 2018 will be the beginning of a new era, which will be pretty much the same philosophy for drafting BPA, regardless of position in round 1 & 2, FA for need, and later rounds for depth. The change would be, the O-line, which would be the #1 priority. I always wonder how much different Joes career would've been with a top flight O-line.

I just don't think you can win with your strategy. Philly, I believe, is the exception to the rule. I just don't think you can put that much money into an offensive line without hurting other key areas, How much did Wagner and Jensen leave for? They both got paid big time. Those teams obviously know you have to have a great offensive line to win or they would not have paid those guys that much money. I doubt they will do anything because other areas of that team are going to suffer big time. I'd love to have the best offensive line in the league every single year but I just think it is one area we can go cheap on and still win. The Ravens had the most playoff wins in the entire league during the 2000s with average to below average offensive lines. You are right, the line is key if you want a great offense. Do you want a great offense or do you want Super Bowl victories? I always like to ask, how many number one offenses have won the Super Bowl during the last 18 years or so? Compare that to number one defenses that have won.

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8 minutes ago, RavingManiac said:

I just don't think you can win with your strategy. Philly, I believe, is the exception to the rule. I just don't think you can put that much money into an offensive line without hurting other key areas, How much did Wagner and Jensen leave for? They both got paid big time. Those teams obviously know you have to have a great offensive line to win or they would not have paid those guys that much money. I doubt they will do anything because other areas of that team are going to suffer big time. I'd love to have the best offensive line in the league every single year but I just think it is one area we can go cheap on and still win. The Ravens had the most playoff wins in the entire league during the 2000s with average to below average offensive lines. You are right, the line is key if you want a great offense. Do you want a great offense or do you want Super Bowl victories? I always like to ask, how many number one offenses have won the Super Bowl during the last 18 years or so? Compare that to number one defenses that have won.

What I'm saying is, a good O-line and average receivers can work a lot better than a bad line and good receivers. Remember too, we finally got over the hump when they finally brought in a decent RT with Harry Swayne. Also, In 2000, we owned TOP, which was a huge reason our defense was so suffocating. The D was always fresh. But who know's, I could be dead wrong. But last year, when I made my picks before game 1, and I used the teams O-line and defensive rankings going into the season. I believe most of the teams I picked were in the top 10 or 12 ranked O-lines. I'm pretty sure I was the only poster to pick Philly to win the SB. How do you think Joe would do behind the Dallas O-line? But like I said. JMHO.

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, mrdeltoid said:

What I'm saying is, a good O-line and average receivers can work a lot better than a bad line and good receivers. Remember too, we finally got over the hump when they finally brought in a decent RT with Harry Swayne. Also, In 2000, we owned TOP, which was a huge reason our defense was so suffocating. The D was always fresh. But who know's, I could be dead wrong. But last year, when I made my picks before game 1, and I used the teams O-line and defensive rankings going into the season. I believe most of the teams I picked were in the top 10 or 12 ranked O-lines. I'm pretty sure I was the only poster to pick Philly to win the SB. How do you think Joe would do behind the Dallas O-line? But like I said. JMHO.

I gotta hand it to you, that was a great pick.  Do you still have all the rankings? I'm curious to see how just the best defenses turned out on your formula regardless of the offensive lines. The first team that came to my mind just now was Minnesota. Great defense but if I am not mistaken, terrible offensive line.

Joe would have played better behind Dallas' line but Joe is not going to do anything spectacular no matter how great the line is. He is just too inconsistent. He is inaccurate. He just is not very good. At times he can be great. He can have a great game here and there. He can play lousy behind our terrible offensive line and then have the best postseason run in NFL history behind that same line.

Edited by RavingManiac

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3 hours ago, RavingManiac said:

I just don't think you can win with your strategy. Philly, I believe, is the exception to the rule. I just don't think you can put that much money into an offensive line without hurting other key areas, How much did Wagner and Jensen leave for? They both got paid big time. Those teams obviously know you have to have a great offensive line to win or they would not have paid those guys that much money. I doubt they will do anything because other areas of that team are going to suffer big time. I'd love to have the best offensive line in the league every single year but I just think it is one area we can go cheap on and still win. The Ravens had the most playoff wins in the entire league during the 2000s with average to below average offensive lines. You are right, the line is key if you want a great offense. Do you want a great offense or do you want Super Bowl victories? I always like to ask, how many number one offenses have won the Super Bowl during the last 18 years or so? Compare that to number one defenses that have won.

I don't think the Ravens offensive lines of the 2000s were below average.  Some of them were above average.  Those lines opened holes for Jamal Lewis and the three headed monster.  The biggest reason for the Ravens having the most playoff wins was because they didn't win the division very often so they got the extra wild card playoff game, and more so because they had Ray Lewis and Ed Reed, two of the best ever to play the game at their positions.  And actually the difference between number one defenses and number one offenses winning the super bowl isn't all that much.  Through history 14 number one defenses have won while 10 number one offenses have won.  There have been statistical anomalies like the Steelers winning in 2008 with the number 1 defense and the number 20 offense, or the Saints winning the following year with the number 1 offense and the number 20 defense.  I think it's best to be at least a little above league average at both.  Interestingly enough, when the Ravens won their last superbowl their offense outranked their defense.  They were #10 offensively, #12 defensively.  Also interesting is that only one team has ever won a superbowl with neither an offense or a defense ranked in the top 10......the 2007 Giants who were ranked #17 in defense and #14 in offense.  

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2 hours ago, RavingManiac said:

I gotta hand it to you, that was a great pick.  Do you still have all the rankings? I'm curious to see how just the best defenses turned out on your formula regardless of the offensive lines. The first team that came to my mind just now was Minnesota. Great defense but if I am not mistaken, terrible offensive line.

Joe would have played better behind Dallas' line but Joe is not going to do anything spectacular no matter how great the line is. He is just too inconsistent. He is inaccurate. He just is not very good. At times he can be great. He can have a great game here and there. He can play lousy behind our terrible offensive line and then have the best postseason run in NFL history behind that same line.

Vikings had 22nd O-line and 6th defense for a total score of 28 in my system. I believe I had them against Philly for the NFC. championship game. System was pretty accurate, huh?

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1 hour ago, mrdeltoid said:

Vikings had 22nd O-line and 6th defense for a total score of 28 in my system. I believe I had them against Philly for the NFC. championship game. System was pretty accurate, huh?

LOL! Wow! I'm going to mark it up as beginners luck though. If you do it again this year, I'm going to be putting money on your formula the year after that.

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, cprenegade said:

I don't think the Ravens offensive lines of the 2000s were below average.  Some of them were above average.  Those lines opened holes for Jamal Lewis and the three headed monster.  The biggest reason for the Ravens having the most playoff wins was because they didn't win the division very often so they got the extra wild card playoff game, and more so because they had Ray Lewis and Ed Reed, two of the best ever to play the game at their positions.  And actually the difference between number one defenses and number one offenses winning the super bowl isn't all that much.  Through history 14 number one defenses have won while 10 number one offenses have won.  There have been statistical anomalies like the Steelers winning in 2008 with the number 1 defense and the number 20 offense, or the Saints winning the following year with the number 1 offense and the number 20 defense.  I think it's best to be at least a little above league average at both.  Interestingly enough, when the Ravens won their last superbowl their offense outranked their defense.  They were #10 offensively, #12 defensively.  Also interesting is that only one team has ever won a superbowl with neither an offense or a defense ranked in the top 10......the 2007 Giants who were ranked #17 in defense and #14 in offense.  

Well I'll let you and Deltoid argue whether the offensive line was above average or below average back then. He just said Grbac got destroyed with our offensive line. The same line that opened up holes for Jamal Lewis. I do think we were talking more pass protection than run blocking though.

Eight times (I think) the number one defense in the league has played the number one offense in the league in the Super Bowl. The number one defense has won every won of those games except one. The team with the better regular-season offense (yards per game) is 22-25 in the Super Bowl, while the team with the better regular-season defense is 30-17. I guess some way you can turn it around to make it look like it's better to have a better offense than defense but it's pretty clear to me it's better to have a number one defense over a number one offense, especially if the two are playing in the Super Bowl. 38 (out of 45) Super Bowls have been won by a top 10 defense

Edited by RavingManiac

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28 minutes ago, RavingManiac said:

Well I'll let you and Deltoid argue whether the offensive line was above average or below average back then. He just said Grbac got destroyed with our offensive line. The same line that opened up holes for Jamal Lewis. I do think we were talking more pass protection than run blocking though.

Eight times (I think) the number one defense in the league has played the number one offense in the league in the Super Bowl. The number one defense has won every won of those games except one. The team with the better regular-season offense (yards per game) is 22-25 in the Super Bowl, while the team with the better regular-season defense is 30-17. I guess some way you can turn it around to make it look like it's better to have a better offense than defense but it's pretty clear to me it's better to have a number one defense over a number one offense, especially if the two are playing in the Super Bowl. 38 (out of 45) Super Bowls have been won by a top 10 defense

I don't think Elvis Grbac is a very good example.  He was awful.  I was at the game in Baltimore against Cleveland where he got sacked and hall of famer Jonathon Ogden ripped his helmet off and stepped over a sacked Grbac on his way to the sideline.  He didn't even stop to help his QB up he was so disgusted.  I have never seen that before or again in football.  That was the same game that Grbac was crying on the sideline.  But overall, yes I will agree that the Ravens O-lines of the 2000's were better at run blocking than pass blocking.

I think you make good points about defenses vs. offenses in the playoffs.  Generally I believe a good defense will find a way to slow down or even stop a good offense while an even mediocre offense can exploit a below average defense.  I think we've seen plenty of examples of that.  The Giants defense slowed down a Buffalo offense that was averaging close to 40 points per game.  Just this year an average Jacksonville offense exposed Pittsburgh's defense in the playoffs.  I think the best way to get to the playoffs and go deep is to have an above average unit on both sides.  All or nothing rarely gets to or wins the superbowl.  

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Posted (edited)

8 hours ago, cprenegade said:

I don't think Elvis Grbac is a very good example.  He was awful.  I was at the game in Baltimore against Cleveland where he got sacked and hall of famer Jonathon Ogden ripped his helmet off and stepped over a sacked Grbac on his way to the sideline.  He didn't even stop to help his QB up he was so disgusted.  I have never seen that before or again in football.  That was the same game that Grbac was crying on the sideline.  But overall, yes I will agree that the Ravens O-lines of the 2000's were better at run blocking than pass blocking.

I think you make good points about defenses vs. offenses in the playoffs.  Generally I believe a good defense will find a way to slow down or even stop a good offense while an even mediocre offense can exploit a below average defense.  I think we've seen plenty of examples of that.  The Giants defense slowed down a Buffalo offense that was averaging close to 40 points per game.  Just this year an average Jacksonville offense exposed Pittsburgh's defense in the playoffs.  I think the best way to get to the playoffs and go deep is to have an above average unit on both sides.  All or nothing rarely gets to or wins the superbowl.  

Actually I picked Grbek  as a perfect example. He was a 4000 yd. passer and pro- bowl QB behind one of the best lines in 2000 with KC.

And I agree with you that the 2000 Ravens had a VERY good O-line. However, in 2001, we lost Harry Swayne, our SB RT and the starter became Kipp Vickers, a huge drop off. Great example of how one weak link in the line can effect so many phases of the game. 

Edited by mrdeltoid

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