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bmore_ken

Harbaugh’s O Line

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Posted (edited)

9 hours ago, RavingManiac said:

Well I'll let you and Deltoid argue whether the offensive line was above average or below average back then. He just said Grbac got destroyed with our offensive line. The same line that opened up holes for Jamal Lewis. I do think we were talking more pass protection than run blocking though.

Eight times (I think) the number one defense in the league has played the number one offense in the league in the Super Bowl. The number one defense has won every won of those games except one. The team with the better regular-season offense (yards per game) is 22-25 in the Super Bowl, while the team with the better regular-season defense is 30-17. I guess some way you can turn it around to make it look like it's better to have a better offense than defense but it's pretty clear to me it's better to have a number one defense over a number one offense, especially if the two are playing in the Super Bowl. 38 (out of 45) Super Bowls have been won by a top 10 defense

Two things; First, at RT we lost Swayne and had Vickers, a huge drop off. Also, just counting #1 O-lines in SB Winners is flawed. Where as the line doesn’t need to be the best in the NFL, it needs to be very good, in combination with a good defense. And I disagree with your take on Joe. The more time he has to throw, the more consistent he is. That’s always been the book on him. Rush his throws and he becomes erratic.

Also remember, the Ravens D in 2000 was so good in part was because they were fresh. TOP was critical in resting our big men. Goose and Sam should’ve gave Jamal and the O-line part of their check. lol 

Edited by mrdeltoid

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8 hours ago, mrdeltoid said:

Two things; First, at RT we lost Swayne and had Vickers, a huge drop off. Also, just counting #1 O-lines in SB Winners is flawed. Where as the line doesn’t need to be the best in the NFL, it needs to be very good, in combination with a good defense. And I disagree with your take on Joe. The more time he has to throw, the more consistent he is. That’s always been the book on him. Rush his throws and he becomes erratic.

Also remember, the Ravens D in 2000 was so good in part was because they were fresh. TOP was critical in resting our big men. Goose and Sam should’ve gave Jamal and the O-line part of their check. lol 

I didn't go back and look but I don't think I was just counting o-lines in SB winners. I thought I was just counting defenses and offenses. The 2000 defense had a great rotation on the line as well.

Just to add to my argument that it's better to have a great defense than a great offense or maybe even just an above average offense and an above average defense, I looked at the Denver Broncos vs the Seahawks. Denver was number one in offense and the seahawks were number 18 in offense. Seattle was number one in defense and Broncos were number 19 in defense.

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8 hours ago, RavingManiac said:

I didn't go back and look but I don't think I was just counting o-lines in SB winners. I thought I was just counting defenses and offenses. The 2000 defense had a great rotation on the line as well.

Just to add to my argument that it's better to have a great defense than a great offense or maybe even just an above average offense and an above average defense, I looked at the Denver Broncos vs the Seahawks. Denver was number one in offense and the seahawks were number 18 in offense. Seattle was number one in defense and Broncos were number 19 in defense.

I’ve never felt a top ranked :huh:total offense made a difference either way. Your argument is not with me. My system was the O-line and the defense were the two most important units on the team besides QB. I don’t know where you got the idea that I said anything about total offense.

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Posted (edited)

11 hours ago, mrdeltoid said:

I’ve never felt a top ranked :huh:total offense made a difference either way. Your argument is not with me. My system was the O-line and the defense were the two most important units on the team besides QB. I don’t know where you got the idea that I said anything about total offense.

I never thought you did. Renegade joined our conversation and he brought up the number one offense talk. I was responding to him and you in the same post and I guess you got a little confused. My bad. I am clear about your thoughts. 

 

Edited by RavingManiac

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33 minutes ago, RavingManiac said:

I never thought you did. Renegade joined our conversation and he brought up the number one offense talk. I was responding to him and you in the same post and I guess you got a little confused. My bad. I am clear about your thoughts. 

 

Believe it or not, although I've always felt the O-line was critical through my playing days, but one of my first coaching positions was in youth as a O-line coach. In this particular league, it was unbelievable how little value the line got, both personnel wise AND coaching wise. By the time I was a HC, I realized 2 things, If I had studs at the skill spots, and bad talent on the line, it was hit or miss. And we were about average, to below average. But if I put a few studs on the line, and "so-so" players at RB, the running game was a beast. I've been focused on the importance of the O-line at all levels and I found that you can have so-so talent at the skill positions as long as there is above average talent on the line, and still win. And the better the O-line is, the more rest the defense gets. You may not have a high scoring quick strike machine, but you can control the clock, wear out the opposing defense, while resting your own defense. However, a bad line means you can't stay on the field, which means your own defense is right back on the field before they are rested, and it leads to a downward spiral.

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1 hour ago, mrdeltoid said:

Believe it or not, although I've always felt the O-line was critical through my playing days, but one of my first coaching positions was in youth as a O-line coach. In this particular league, it was unbelievable how little value the line got, both personnel wise AND coaching wise. By the time I was a HC, I realized 2 things, If I had studs at the skill spots, and bad talent on the line, it was hit or miss. And we were about average, to below average. But if I put a few studs on the line, and "so-so" players at RB, the running game was a beast. I've been focused on the importance of the O-line at all levels and I found that you can have so-so talent at the skill positions as long as there is above average talent on the line, and still win. And the better the O-line is, the more rest the defense gets. You may not have a high scoring quick strike machine, but you can control the clock, wear out the opposing defense, while resting your own defense. However, a bad line means you can't stay on the field, which means your own defense is right back on the field before they are rested, and it leads to a downward spiral.

How did you have Minnesota in the championship round last year? Isn't their offensive line bad?

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Posted (edited)

44 minutes ago, RavingManiac said:

How did you have Minnesota in the championship round last year? Isn't their offensive line bad?

Actually I was mistaken when I said their O-line was 22nd. That was after the seasons ranking. Going into 2017 the line was ranked slightly above average at 14 and their defense was VERY good at 3. So when I calculated last September the combined score was 17. I had them loosing to Philly in the NFC championship.https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj6tqLEianaAhVHs1kKHWR9ATEQFggvMAE&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.profootballfocus.com%2Fnews%2Fpro-ranking-all-32-offensive-line-units-heading-into-the-2017-season&usg=AOvVaw37ku4rqVyyrKdscSImNAMn

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=9&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj-os3rianaAhXDt1kKHY6aAA0QFgiLATAI&url=https%3A%2F%2Fsportsnaut.com%2F2017%2F08%2Franking-all-32-nfl-defenses-heading-into-2017-season%2F&usg=AOvVaw3ahG70Fb8FdJsQqRG27V9B

Edited by mrdeltoid

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On ‎4‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 5:54 PM, mrdeltoid said:

What I'm saying is, a good O-line and average receivers can work a lot better than a bad line and good receivers. Remember too, we finally got over the hump when they finally brought in a decent RT with Harry Swayne. Also, In 2000, we owned TOP, which was a huge reason our defense was so suffocating. The D was always fresh. But who know's, I could be dead wrong. But last year, when I made my picks before game 1, and I used the teams O-line and defensive rankings going into the season. I believe most of the teams I picked were in the top 10 or 12 ranked O-lines. I'm pretty sure I was the only poster to pick Philly to win the SB. How do you think Joe would do behind the Dallas O-line? But like I said. JMHO.

I just read a story about Flacco. He is dead last in just about every category there is. A lot of people blame the offensive coordinator. Some people want to blame the offensive line. When does it become Joe's fault? I think you know as well as I do it can't be another coordinator's fault. The line has not been that bad for him to be the absolute worst in the league. I think Flacco just sucks. I think he can be great when he wants to. I think the problem is motivation for him. I still think if we can get to the playoffs, he will put up numbers comparable to Joe Montana. Why is that? Because he always seems to come up big in big time games. These regular season games just doesn't seem to excite him. That is my take. I mean he will have a bad game and somebody will say it's because of the line. He will have a great game the following week against a better defense though.

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On 3/27/2018 at 11:00 AM, bmore_ken said:

They played clips from the Owners meetings on 1057 the fan

Lt-Stanley

LG-Alex Lewis

C Matt Skura

RG-Marshal Yanda

wait for it, wait for it....

RT-James Hurst

This came straight from the horse’s mouth. I swear to God if Hurst lines up at RT week 1, I’ll slit my wrist. :mad:

You just can't get over being wrong 3 years ago .....

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