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Pickle20

25 ways to make Baltimore better

60 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

8 minutes ago, sparky1 said:

So what you are saying is that you do not want the prison system to have parole any longer, or allow for any leniency for good or positive behavior.

It seems that that would be a recipe for a disastrous situation in the state's prisons. 

The alternative is what we have now. Career criminals committing more crime. Most people in prison right now have more than one conviction. 

Edited by bmore_ken

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Who are the truth in sentencing laws for? The criminal, he is very aware, to the day of what his sentence entails. The population at large? They are not aware of the laws and the sentences for each in the first place. The judge, attorneys and prosecutors? They wrote them and know them. 

This is Maryland's statute on Cocaine Possession. What is wrong with it or unclear about it?

Code Section Maryland Code, Criminal Law § 5-601, et seq.
Possession Misdemeanor with penalty of up to 4 yrs. and/or $25,000; Bringing 28 g. into state: felony with penalty of up to $50,000 and/or 25 yrs.; Subsequent offense: double penalties
Sale Felony with penalty of 20 yrs. and/or $25,000; Sale of more than 448 g. or 50 g. of crack: not less than 40 yrs.; Subsequent offense: double penalties; 2 yrs. mandatory, not less than 10 yr. sentence; Third offense: not less than 40 yrs. Sale to minors or near school property: stricter penalties
Trafficking If "drug kingpin" 20-40 yrs. and/or $1,000,000 fine

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Just now, sparky1 said:

Who are the truth in sentencing laws for? The criminal, he is very aware, to the day of what his sentence entails. The population at large? They are not aware of the laws and the sentences for each in the first place. The judge, attorneys and prosecutors? They wrote them and know them. 

This is Maryland's statute on Cocaine Possession. What is wrong with it or unclear about it?

Code Section Maryland Code, Criminal Law § 5-601, et seq.
Possession Misdemeanor with penalty of up to 4 yrs. and/or $25,000; Bringing 28 g. into state: felony with penalty of up to $50,000 and/or 25 yrs.; Subsequent offense: double penalties
Sale Felony with penalty of 20 yrs. and/or $25,000; Sale of more than 448 g. or 50 g. of crack: not less than 40 yrs.; Subsequent offense: double penalties; 2 yrs. mandatory, not less than 10 yr. sentence; Third offense: not less than 40 yrs. Sale to minors or near school property: stricter penalties
Trafficking If "drug kingpin" 20-40 yrs. and/or $1,000,000 fine

What’s wrong with it is twenty years doesn’t actually equal twenty years served. 

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So, really you want judges to be bound by a binary set of rules. If guilty get 1; If innocent get 0. Each crime equals a set penalty and there is no range of possibility for severity or circumstance. And of course no place for a Judge to, well, judge. 

I would suppose a concurrent philosophy would be that you view the justice system as punishment, rather than correction. 

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49 minutes ago, sparky1 said:

So, really you want judges to be bound by a binary set of rules. 

No what I want is sentencing for the most violent crimes be taken away from judges altogether. Murder, rape, assault with a deadly weapon , armed robbery are crimes that should have a mandatory sentence with no parole or probation. People who kill others should not be allowed back on the street. IMO. 

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6 minutes ago, bmore_ken said:

No what I want is sentencing for the most violent crimes be taken away from judges altogether. Murder, rape, assault with a deadly weapon , armed robbery are crimes that should have a mandatory sentence with no parole or probation. People who kill others should not be allowed back on the street. IMO. 

Just so we are clear. Thank you for clarifying.

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5 hours ago, sparky1 said:

What is the issue with truth in sentencing laws? I am not sure what the public fervor is for them The judge sentences them, and everyone in the state then becomes eligible for parole or not. If eligible it is at 1/2 th time for violent crimes and at 1/4 the sentence for nonviolent crimes. 

What do people mean when the say they want truth in sentencing laws? Do they mean they want longer sentences? No parole sentences?

 

 

I think they want no parole.

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Why not just bring Sharia law to Maryland. Good Grief. 

I would hate to be a correctional officer working with a population that literally has no reason to comply with your directives.

 

 

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25 minutes ago, sparky1 said:

Why not just bring Sharia law to Maryland. Good Grief. 

I would hate to be a correctional officer working with a population that literally has no reason to comply with your directives.

 

 

You’re right. The better solution is shorter sentences so the criminals can get back to business as soon as possible.   :rolleyes:

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The better solution is that they leave jail and are no longer criminals. 

 

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It will take much more than strict sentencing laws to Make Baltimore Great Again. We cannot imprison our way out of the current situation.

A front page article in today's Sun laments the pay disparity between whites and blacks in B'more, with blacks earning substantially less than whites.

Could a big part of that be because of the shattered public education system in B'more which turns out hundreds of essentially illiterate teen-agers every spring? We keep hearing about the umpteen schools in which students fail the minimum state requirements. At the same time, we also hear that lack of good jobs is among the primary causes of crime.

There was a time when the drop-outs and under-educated could get laboring jobs, if nothing else, but technology has eliminated most of those jobs. The school system may use social-promotions to keep young people moving through the system but once they either graduate or drop out, prospective employers are not going hire them unless they can demonstrate some level of skill and motivation.

We are on our third or fourth generation of this situation since I came to B'more in 1949 and despite all the pronouncements of programs to improve things, the situation has grown steadily worse. Too often there is no stable home life for youngsters, no one to teach them discipline and self-control; to give them anything to be proud of; no one with enough education to help them learn.

Being told from infancy by race hustlers like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson that they are "victims" they believe that they cannot help themselves but must fight against their "oppressors."

Lacking decent employment prospects, they begin their careers as welfare recipients or start up the ladder of the illegal drug trade. And the cycle of poverty, ignorance and violence goes round and round.

This grim picture is not confined to B'more. Look around the country at other major urban areas, Chicago, Detroit, Newark and on and on. The pictures of those places could be laid one atop another and there would be little difference.

We know what the problem is but with the end of the Age of Miracles a solution appears beyond our grasp at the moment. Will one ever emerge? Who knows? The tragedy continues.

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, sparky1 said:

The better solution is that they leave jail and are no longer criminals. 

 

Statistics say that's not happening. That's kind of my point. 

Quote
Within three years of release, about two-thirds (67.8 percent) of released prisoners were rearrested. Within five years of release, about three-quarters (76.6 percent) of released prisoners were rearrested. Of those prisoners who were rearrested, more than half (56.7 percent) were arrested by the end of the first year.Jun 17, 2014

 

Edited by bmore_ken

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It will take much more than strict sentencing laws to Make Baltimore Great Again. We cannot imprison our way out of the current situation.

First, I think your whole post is great.

However, I think this is the first thing that can be done, and maybe the most important thing, and you can still do all the community outreach stuff, improve schools, etc...to try to fix the problem long term.

But you simply cannot let violent criminals knowingly walk the street! It's proven time and time again whenever an arrest is made for a murder -- the perp has a rap sheet that could stretch from Shot Tower to Ellicott City!

The system is failing in Baltimore. It's an epic fail.

You need to lock up violent offenders. You need to teach society that criminal behavior -- especially VIOLENT criminal behavior will not be accepted and you will be held accountable.

 

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17 minutes ago, retired said:

It will take much more than strict sentencing laws to Make Baltimore Great Again. We cannot imprison our way out of the current situation.

 

Actually you can. As my post on the recidivism rates shows, most crime is committed by repeat offenders. If they're in jail longer, they can't recommit crimes. It's not the only solution, but clearly as Pickle said should be the start of any solution. Clearly many of Baltimore's  residents don't care about the education system. If you want to attract resident who do care, the first step would be to make the city safer and that starts with locking up the bad people and keeping them there. Right now the people who move to the city to go to school at Hopkins and UMAB who could possibly make a difference, are getting their educations and then moving to have their family in a safe environment. 

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34 minutes ago, retired said:

It will take much more than strict sentencing laws to Make Baltimore Great Again. We cannot imprison our way out of the current situation.

A front page article in today's Sun laments the pay disparity between whites and blacks in B'more, with blacks earning substantially less than whites.

Could a big part of that be because of the shattered public education system in B'more which turns out hundreds of essentially illiterate teen-agers every spring? We keep hearing about the umpteen schools in which students fail the minimum state requirements. At the same time, we also hear that lack of good jobs is among the primary causes of crime.

There was a time when the drop-outs and under-educated could get laboring jobs, if nothing else, but technology has eliminated most of those jobs. The school system may use social-promotions to keep young people moving through the system but once they either graduate or drop out, prospective employers are not going hire them unless they can demonstrate some level of skill and motivation.

We are on our third or fourth generation of this situation since I came to B'more in 1949 and despite all the pronouncements of programs to improve things, the situation has grown steadily worse. Too often there is no stable home life for youngsters, no one to teach them discipline and self-control; to give them anything to be proud of; no one with enough education to help them learn.

Being told from infancy by race hustlers like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson that they are "victims" they believe that they cannot help themselves but must fight against their "oppressors."

Lacking decent employment prospects, they begin their careers as welfare recipients or start up the ladder of the illegal drug trade. And the cycle of poverty, ignorance and violence goes round and round.

This grim picture is not confined to B'more. Look around the country at other major urban areas, Chicago, Detroit, Newark and on and on. The pictures of those places could be laid one atop another and there would be little difference.

We know what the problem is but with the end of the Age of Miracles a solution appears beyond our grasp at the moment. Will one ever emerge? Who knows? The tragedy continues.

The shattered public education system and other problems there are because of the city's shattered families problem. 

That's the cause. 

The other problems with the schools, lack of education, crime, and unemployed and unemployable people are the effect. 

Admitting that touches too close to home for too many for anything to be done about it if anything can really be done about it now. It's probably too late to turn things around without moving people out to other areas, and that's only going to cause the problems to spread. 

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Ode, you got it in one. Well done!

Shame that those who can do something real, won't do anything real. it would upset their political applecarts.

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3 hours ago, bmore_ken said:

Actually you can. As my post on the recidivism rates shows, most crime is committed by repeat offenders. If they're in jail longer, they can't recommit crimes. It's not the only solution, but clearly as Pickle said should be the start of any solution. Clearly many of Baltimore's  residents don't care about the education system. If you want to attract resident who do care, the first step would be toa make the city safer and that starts with locking up the bad people and keeping them there. Right now the people who move to the city to go to school at Hopkins and UMAB who could possibly make a difference, are getting their educations and then moving to have their family in a safe environment. 

AMerica and Baltimore already locks up more of its citizens than almost any other country on the planet. . .  in history. It has not worked.    While it is true that a person who is locked up cannot commit his second crime, it does not seem to stop many from committing their first. 

 

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4 minutes ago, sparky1 said:

AMerica and Baltimore already locks up more of its citizens than almost any other country on the planet. . .  in history. It has not worked.    

 

Do you have a reading comprehension problem? Because this is the 3rd time I've said this. They lock plenty of people up no one is denying that, the problem is they don't stay there. Geez sometimes I feel like I'm talking to 3rd graders.

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4 minutes ago, sparky1 said:

AMerica and Baltimore already locks up more of its citizens than almost any other country on the planet. . .  in history. It has not worked.    While it is true that a person who is locked up cannot commit his second crime, it does not seem to stop many from committing their first. 

 

Repeat offenders are usually the most violent ones. Especially in Baltimore.

You will never completely stop crime from happening. But you should target repeat offenders, especially violent ones.

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7 hours ago, Ode2Joy said:

The shattered public education system and other problems there are because of the city's shattered families problem. 

That's the cause. 

The other problems with the schools, lack of education, crime, and unemployed and unemployable people are the effect. 

Admitting that touches too close to home for too many for anything to be done about it if anything can really be done about it now. It's probably too late to turn things around without moving people out to other areas, and that's only going to cause the problems to spread. 

You're right, the broken family, illegitimacy, however it's worded, is the root cause of just about every societal ill. We created that, and now it feeds on itself. 

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On 4/16/2018 at 0:08 PM, sparky1 said:

So, really you want judges to be bound by a binary set of rules. If guilty get 1; If innocent get 0. Each crime equals a set penalty and there is no range of possibility for severity or circumstance. And of course no place for a Judge to, well, judge. 

I would suppose a concurrent philosophy would be that you view the justice system as punishment, rather than correction. 

If your way worked,... correction as opposed to punishment, judges that are able to impose sentence terms on a whim, opportunities for more lenient sentencing and release..we wouldn't have violent guys with 9-11 prior arrests causing havoc in the neighborhoods. 

The reality, as uncomfortable as it is, is that there isn't enough young men in prison. At this point, tough times demand tough action, or the city is irreparably damaged. The individual citizen should be protected at the expense of the violent offender. 

Until we stem the tide of kids being born to people ill-equipped to properly raise them, kids who are taught self respect and respect for the community and others, we will need to aggressively remove violent offenders.    It's amazing to me that we're still struggling to deal with that, but theres a lot of politics involved. 

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On ‎4‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 5:17 PM, Woodbuchr said:

Here are links to all the House and Senate bills and their status as of Today 4/15. You have to scroll through the lists but each bill has a number and a title which is fairly descriptive.

If a bill has Chapter and a # it has been signed by the Governor. If it has Returned Passed/Passed Enrolled it has cleared both chambers and is waiting for the Governor to sign, veto, or let stand and be enacted by his non-action. If it has a hearing date only it was not even voted on in committee, if it has Unfavorable Report that means it was voted down in committee.

So if you are looking to see what passed look for a Chapter number, or Returned Passed or Passed Enrolled. If you want more detail click on the History or Documents link. The Text for the Third Reader of a passed bill, in its Chamber of origin, is what the final language looks like.

http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/pubs-current/current-senate-status-report.pdf

http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/pubs-current/current-house-status-report.pdf

There were 1269 Senate bills and 1832 House Bills, not counting Joint Bills. I forgot to add that if a bill was introduced late it will have a First Reading Senate Rules and date or First Reading House Rules and Executive Nominations and a date. Either of those may also be Unfavorable.

As I have said before dealing with the General Assembly and its processes can be convoluted.

Voting records are in the Documents Section of each bill.

Busy weekend.... I never thanked you for taking the time to post all this good information. 

I went through the various bills as best I could.....am I wrong the only bills that are even orbit around criminal law were the bump stocks and the 'confiscation' bill?

Nothing about mandatory or truth in sentencing got even close. Correct me if I am wrong. 

BTW that confiscation bill.... I tried picking through it....did tha part about a ticked off neighbor get struke....seems it was. 

Thanks again.

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On ‎4‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 5:31 PM, Woodbuchr said:

HB 1029 was passed by both chambers and is waiting for the Governor's action. Here is a link to the final language of the bill. If it looks different than the one you looked at you may have been looking at the First Reader instead of the Third Reader. The bill was amended in the House Judiciary Committee so the fimal language will look different than it did when it was introduced.

http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/2018RS/bills/hb/hb1029t.pdf

Thanks, again.

I tried reading through it. On paper it seems to be an improvement. But to me all they did was change mandatory to minimum. It seems that the judge still has a lot of flexablily much as before. None of the REAL laws changed. 

Such as Ideally for example....you used a firearm to commit a robbery. You get 5 for the gun and whatever the other penalty is for the robbery... no plea bargaining etc.allowed....the judge can't take the 5 away. The bill that I mentioned somewhere that the city delegation presented....included several such changes to the actual penalties. Which got shxt canned. 

Which it seems they still can. So nothing ....IMO....has really changed. 

Thoughts....maybe I am missing something. 

 

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On ‎4‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 11:42 AM, stevez51 said:

You get sentenced to 20 yrs its for something serious. If you are a habitual offender, getting in and out of prison means you get 20, you should stay there.

In oonjunction with this; if the penalty says 20 years....that should not mean that the judge has the ability to; wave part of that....read the paper ....how many get 20 years but the judge knocks it down to 5..........also....that if given 20 years....you got to serve 10 years ....then are up for parole....not a few....as we see ...frequently. ... in theory in MD if you use a gun in the commission of a crime it is supposed to  be 5 years for the gun....plus what ever else you did....which never seems to happen. 

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