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JoyinMudville

The "Why Can't Tillman Pitch the 1st Inning" Game Thread

91 posts in this topic

11 hours ago, pitbull said:

The majority of the credit, 90 percent, goes to MacPhail. It was his core. Big Dan didn’t have a whole lot to do with the success, other than inheriting that core. i’m sure you would ageee.

I agree somewhat, but not 90%.  More 50/50.  Its a good point on the core and one I've agreed with in the past.  But DD added some key pieces for that 2014 run like Cruz, Miller, McClouth and Pierce.  And he had brought in Hammel and Gonzo to shore up the pitching. So in my mind he gets some credit for the 2012-2014 run.  But my biggest criticism of him was he never added longer term core players to what MacPhail had built.  It was always a one year stop gap or 3 month trade rental.  He whiffed on the one big long term FA which was UJ.  And that was devastating going forward.  I always said his approach in 2012 to 2014 yielded quick results and is what we needed, but it was unsustainable.  You can't trade away that much young pitching for short term fixes without the bill coming due down the road.  And also hitting on the dumpster plays wasn't going to hold up at that rate.  

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10 hours ago, CROUSEMAN said:

I agree somewhat, but not 90%.  More 50/50.  Its a good point on the core and one I've agreed with in the past.  But DD added some key pieces for that 2014 run like Cruz, Miller, McClouth and Pierce.  

 Eh, it’s more like 80/20.

Duquette got lucky with McClouth and Pearce to the extent they were bargain basement deals with high upside. It worked with those two. Ovef the past 7 years, not so much.

He also got lucky with Cruz, then didn’t have the common sense or vision to bring him back. Think about it. A slugger who hits for average and gets on base. What a concept.

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1 hour ago, pitbull said:

 Eh, it’s more like 80/20.

Duquette got lucky with McClouth and Pearce to the extent they were bargain basement deals with high upside. It worked with those two. Ovef the past 7 years, not so much.

He also got lucky with Cruz, then didn’t have the common sense or vision to bring him back. Think about it. A slugger who hits for average and gets on base. What a concept.

The other thing I forgot to mention that DD screwed up on was forfeiting and trading high draft picks and he didn't get the return he should of.  I've listed them before it was like 2 number ones, a number one comp pick, a number two and 2 number 3s from 2013-2016. Got one year of Cruz and one good year of Norris for those picks.

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DD also got lucky with Hammel, Chen, Gonzalez, Saunders, Norris, Feldman, Brach, Miller, Valencia (his first time here), Delmon, De Aza, and Paredes. All these guys, almost all of whom were unknowns and castoffs, contributed to the O's being competitive between 2012-2014. Yep, that DD is one lucky guy. But, you know what they say. In baseball, it's better to be lucky than good. 

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3 hours ago, weird-O said:

DD also got lucky with Hammel, Chen, Gonzalez, Saunders, Norris, Feldman, Brach, Miller, Valencia (his first time here), Delmon, De Aza, and Paredes. All these guys, almost all of whom were unknowns and castoffs, contributed to the O's being competitive between 2012-2014. Yep, that DD is one lucky guy. But, you know what they say. In baseball, it's better to be lucky than good. 

These were great pick ups.  Then the well started to go dry.  Couple that with all the young pitching trades and forfeited/traded draft picks and we had very little in the way of new young talent being infused to the roster.  Bundy, Mancini and Givens are the only homegrown guys I can think of the last 2-3 years.  Who am I missing???

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30 minutes ago, CROUSEMAN said:

These were great pick ups.  Then the well started to go dry.  Couple that with all the young pitching trades and forfeited/traded draft picks and we had very little in the way of new young talent being infused to the roster.  Bundy, Mancini and Givens are the only homegrown guys I can think of the last 2-3 years.  Who am I missing???

Did the well run dry?

Isn't it an amazing coincidence that the FO suddenly forgot how to assess and acquire talented players, either through trades or free agency, right at the point at which DD is said to have had his authority discretely stripped?   

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18 minutes ago, weird-O said:

Did the well run dry?

Isn't it an amazing coincidence that the FO suddenly forgot how to assess and acquire talented players, either through trades or free agency, right at the point at which DD is said to have had his authority discretely stripped?   

Yep,  agree.  But I have to wonder who was behind the Gallardo signing???   I do know that ownership forced those two trades of Matusz and Webb where DD had to include those 3rd round comp picks in order for the Braves and Dodgers to eat the salary.  

The well did run dry, it may just of been DD and Brady dipping the bucket.  

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Looks like Tillman II is on the mound today.

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1 hour ago, weird-O said:

Did the well run dry?

Isn't it an amazing coincidence that the FO suddenly forgot how to assess and acquire talented players, either through trades or free agency, right at the point at which DD is said to have had his authority discretely stripped?   

Looking back I definitely think DD lost some juice after the Toronto thing.  But I believe he continued to make some of the deals, Like trading for Snyder, signing Gallardo and trading for Trumbo.  But as the Baby Bros have gained much more influence the last year or two, they have pretty much handed the reins over to Brady.  DD has been relegated to signings like Alex Pressley and Joely Rodriguez.  So I think its very hard to just cut DD off any responsibility right after 2014.  I think it was a gradual thing, IMO.  That's why I lump this current mess under BBD - Buck, Brady and Dan.   Just my take on it,

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Posted (edited)

6 hours ago, weird-O said:

DD also got lucky with Hammel, Chen, Gonzalez, Saunders, Norris, Feldman, Brach, Miller, Valencia (his first time here), Delmon, De Aza, and Paredes. All these guys, almost all of whom were unknowns and castoffs, contributed to the O's being competitive between 2012-2014. Yep, that DD is one lucky guy. But, you know what they say. In baseball, it's better to be lucky than good. 

Little bit of a stretch there, wouldn’t you agree?

De Aza was good for one month. He failed as an everyday player in 2015.

Parades adding nothing of significance. Delmon was a Good pinch hitter. Didn’t work out as an everyday player that Big Dan envisioned to replace Markakis in 2015, did he?

Gonzo & Chen were pure luck.

Saunders had a solid stretch for one month in 2012.

Norris had a great season here in 2014. Not so much in 2015.

Hammel had a good half-year in 2012. Nothing of consequence thereafter.

They were decent pieces to complement MacPhail’s core, nothing more. Now, the core is past its prime and Big Dan is still signing the Valencia’s and Rasmus’s and Pedro Alvarez’s is the world and counting upon them to be everyday productive players. It’s laughable  & it just ain’t happening.

Big Dan’s legacy will be Cruz, Trumbo & Ubaldo.

Edited by pitbull

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39 minutes ago, pitbull said:

Little bit of a stretch there, wouldn’t you agree?

De Aza was good for one month. He failed as an everyday player in 2015.

Parades adding nothing of significance. Delmon was a Good pinch hitter. Didn’t work out as an everyday player that Big Dan envisioned to replace Markakis in 2015, did he?

Gonzo & Chen were pure luck.

Saunders had a solid stretch for one month in 2012.

Norris had a great season here in 2014. Not so much in 2015.

Hammel had a good half-year in 2012. Nothing of consequence thereafter.

They were decent pieces to complement MacPhail’s core, nothing more. Now, the core is past its prime and Big Dan is still signing the Valencia’s and Rasmus’s and Pedro Alvarez’s is the world and counting upon them to be everyday productive players. It’s laughable  & it just ain’t happening.

Big Dan’s legacy will be Cruz, Trumbo & Ubaldo.

Those players contributed, and had a positive impact on the team's success. My comment was that they contributed to the team's success. 

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Posted (edited)

59 minutes ago, Thirteen said:

Looks like Tillman II is on the mound today.

And Tillman III relieved him.

Edited by Thirteen

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I knew they would be bad, I didn’t think they would be this bad.

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What is going on with Cobb. -_-

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13 minutes ago, weird-O said:

What is going on with Cobb. -_-

He's got Oriole Fever.

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10 minutes ago, Thirteen said:

He's got Oriole Fever.

:lol:

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