Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
flyboy56

OPCW Inspectors Delayed By Syria and Russia

47 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Syria and Russia make themselves look guilty. I'm sure the OPCW teams have worked under much worse conditions. 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria/inspectors-visit-to-suspected-syria-gas-attack-site-delayed-idUSKBN1HN1EC?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+reuters%2FtopNews+(News+%2F+US+%2F+Top+News)

Britain’s Ambassador Peter Wilson said at a news conference in The Hague that the United Nations had cleared the inspectors to go but they had been unable to reach Douma because Syria and Russia had been unable to guarantee their safety. 

“Unfettered access (is) essential,” a British statement said. “Russia and Syria must cooperate.” 

Russia’s deputy foreign minister said the delay was due to the Western strikes. 

 

Edited by flyboy56

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, flyboy56 said:

Syria and Russia make themselves look guilty. I'm sure the OPCW teams have worked under much worse conditions. 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria/inspectors-visit-to-suspected-syria-gas-attack-site-delayed-idUSKBN1HN1EC?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+reuters%2FtopNews+(News+%2F+US+%2F+Top+News)

Britain’s Ambassador Peter Wilson said at a news conference in The Hague that the United Nations had cleared the inspectors to go but they had been unable to reach Douma because Syria and Russia had been unable to guarantee their safety. 

“Unfettered access (is) essential,” a British statement said. “Russia and Syria must cooperate.” 

Russia’s deputy foreign minister said the delay was due to the Western strikes. 

 

Hard to believe that some will still see nothing wrong with the delay of Syria and Russia and believe them.  You'd think they'd want to prove their claims. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Ode2Joy said:

Hard to believe that some will still see nothing wrong with the delay of Syria and Russia and believe them.  You'd think they'd want to prove their claims. 

 

It takes time to remove evidence when it's been scattered all over. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Of COURSE the freak Russians are guilty!  Recent history shows that they usually are.

Pootie is spoiling for a fight.  He wants to slap Trump up the side of the head, thus demeaning the good ol' USA.

The Russian-fueled war in the Middle East is the perfect thing to distract the world from what he is doing on his own western front and to 'his own' people.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, flyboy56 said:

It takes time to remove evidence when it's been scattered all over. 

What about witnesses and survivors?

Where are they?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, soulflower said:

What about witnesses and survivors?

Where are they?

Good question. The OPCW team would want to question them. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, flyboy56 said:

Like I said, guilty or not by refusing access to the site Syria and Russia make themselves look guilty. They aren't helping themselves. If the inspectors can't fill in the blanks with facts people will fill in the blanks depending on perception. 

Isn't it all rather academic now? You guy's along with our spineless PM have already done the 'Ready-FIRE-Aim routine.

What's the rush? You guys have already "filled in the blanks"-  NOW you want proof? You have just admitted that you attacked a target without certain justification.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, WKDWZD said:

Isn't it all rather academic now? You guy's along with our spineless PM have already done the 'Ready-FIRE-Aim routine.

What's the rush? You guys have already "filled in the blanks"-  NOW you want proof? You have just admitted that you attacked a target without certain justification.

I don't think that's the case.  I think the US, Britain and France had the evidence and decided to act.  The inspections are to satisfy the rest of the world which is not so quick to just take the US or it's allies word for it.  Delaying access gives the powers over there time to cleanse the area.  I don't think the US or Britain would push for such quick inspections if they didn't know they had the proof.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, WKDWZD said:

Isn't it all rather academic now? You guy's along with our spineless PM have already done the 'Ready-FIRE-Aim routine.

What's the rush? You guys have already "filled in the blanks"-  NOW you want proof? You have just admitted that you attacked a target without certain justification.

Post of the Day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

13 hours ago, cprenegade said:

I don't think that's the case.  I think the US, Britain and France had the evidence and decided to act.

Social Media and Video is all the evidence they have.

You can't reach any concrete conclusions based on that alone.

Allies vague on evidence linking Syria to chemical attack

The French government said Saturday that it launched a military response based on unspecified intelligence and open-source information, which included “testimonies, photos and videos that spontaneously appeared on specialized websites, in the press and on social media in the hours and days following the attack.”

It said French experts did not have chemical samples to evaluate, but analyzed “the symptoms identifiable in the images and videos that were made public... All of these symptoms are characteristic of a chemical weapons attack.”

Edited by soulflower

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, soulflower said:

Social Media and Video is all the evidence they have.

You can't reach any concrete conclusions based on that alone.

Allies vague on evidence linking Syria to chemical attack

The French government said Saturday that it launched a military response based on unspecified intelligence and open-source information, which included “testimonies, photos and videos that spontaneously appeared on specialized websites, in the press and on social media in the hours and days following the attack.”

It said French experts did not have chemical samples to evaluate, but analyzed “the symptoms identifiable in the images and videos that were made public... All of these symptoms are characteristic of a chemical weapons attack.”

Was information available from medical people on the scene ..???

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, soulflower said:

Social Media and Video is all the evidence they have.

You can't reach any concrete conclusions based on that alone.

Allies vague on evidence linking Syria to chemical attack

The French government said Saturday that it launched a military response based on unspecified intelligence and open-source information, which included “testimonies, photos and videos that spontaneously appeared on specialized websites, in the press and on social media in the hours and days following the attack.”

It said French experts did not have chemical samples to evaluate, but analyzed “the symptoms identifiable in the images and videos that were made public... All of these symptoms are characteristic of a chemical weapons attack.”

I'm sure they have classified satellite images as well.  Without people on the scene, you can't get chemical samples.  I have no problem with the evidence used to justify a response.  My question is whether there should have been a response at all.  Unless their weapons threaten us or our allies in the region, I'm not sure we should be involved.  I've said that since Obama made noises about Syria facing retribution for chemical attacks.  Syria using CW against rebel opposition in it's own country poses no national security problem for us or our allies.  It should be a UN problem.  That is if the UN were anything more than a bad joke.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, gonzoliberal said:

Of COURSE the freak Russians are guilty!  Recent history shows that they usually are.

Pootie is spoiling for a fight.  He wants to slap Trump up the side of the head, thus demeaning the good ol' USA.

The Russian-fueled war in the Middle East is the perfect thing to distract the world from what he is doing on his own western front and to 'his own' people.

 

He apparently is slapping the UK upside the head! He blamed them for staging the chemical attack.:lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

25 minutes ago, cprenegade said:

I'm sure they have classified satellite images as well.  Without people on the scene, you can't get chemical samples.  I have no problem with the evidence used to justify a response.  My question is whether there should have been a response at all.  Unless their weapons threaten us or our allies in the region, I'm not sure we should be involved.  I've said that since Obama made noises about Syria facing retribution for chemical attacks.  Syria using CW against rebel opposition in it's own country poses no national security problem for us or our allies.  It should be a UN problem.  That is if the UN were anything more than a bad joke.  

After Iraq, how can we be sure about the reliability of Western Intelligence agencies? They’ve been tragically wrong in the past about this kind of stuff. We also now know the intelligence was wrong about Libya. The claim that Gadaffi was about to commit a huge massacre was based on dubious sources. 

I think if they had something more credible than publicly available information, they would’ve released it to justify the military operation. Especially the U.K. where Theresa May will likely pay the biggest political price for the bombing.  British public opinion is strongly opposed to intervening in Syria. May authorized the air strikes while the British Parliament was away on Recess. 

Edited by soulflower

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

10 minutes ago, soulflower said:

After Iraq, how can we be sure about the reliability of Western Intelligence agencies? They’ve been tragically wrong in the past about this kind of stuff. We also now know the intelligence was wrong about Libya. The claim that Gadaffi was about to commit a huge massacre was based on dubious sources. 

I think if they had something more credible than publicly available information, they would’ve released it to justify the military operation. Especially the U.K. where Theresa May will likely pay the biggest political price for the bombing.  British public opinion is strongly opposed to intervening in Syria. May authorized the air strikes while the British Parliament was away on Recess. 

June 23, 2014: OPCW Director General Uzumcu announced that the last 8 percent of Syria's chemical weapons was shipped out of the country from the port of Latakia on the Danish ship Ark Futura. Uzumcu says the chemicals should be destroyed within four months.

And yet...

October 26, 2017: The seventh report of the OPCW-UN joint investigative mechanism found the Assad regime guilty of using sarin nerve agent in the April 4 attack in Khan Sheikhoun and the Islamic State responsible for the use of sulfur mustard at Umm Hawsh in September 2016.

 
Edited by flyboy56

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, flyboy56 said:

June 23, 2014: OPCW Director General Uzumcu announced that the last 8 percent of Syria's chemical weapons was shipped out of the country from the port of Latakia on the Danish ship Ark Futura. Uzumcu says the chemicals should be destroyed within four months.

And yet...

October 26, 2017: The seventh report of the OPCW-UN joint investigative mechanism found the Assad regime guilty of using sarin nerve agent in the April 4 attack in Khan Sheikhoun and the Islamic State responsible for the use of sulfur mustard at Umm Hawsh in September 2016.

 

The Rebels have used chemical weapons against pro-Assad Syrians and the Kurds 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, soulflower said:

The Rebels have used chemical weapons against pro-Assad Syrians and the Kurds 

OPCW-UN Investigators have proven the Assad Regime continues to use chemical weapons after Syria and the OPCW claimed all of Syria's chemicals were removed in June of 2014. Either they are still making the chemicals or using what they still have stored or both. 

Edited by flyboy56

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, flyboy56 said:

OPCW-UN Investigators have proven the Assad Regime continues to use chemical weapons after Syria and the OPCW claimed all of Syria's chemicals were removed in June of 2014. Either they are still making the chemicals or using what they still have stored or both. 

Past actions don’t prove the Assad Regime is responsible for the most recent incident 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

2 minutes ago, soulflower said:

Past actions don’t prove the Assad Regime is responsible for the most recent incident 

It does prove they are liars and not to be believed when they say they didn't do it. And the last time the regime was proven to use chemical weapons was just less than 2 years ago. 

Edited by flyboy56

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, soulflower said:

The Rebels have used chemical weapons against pro-Assad Syrians and the Kurds 

Going back to July of 2012 there has been no proven attack with chemical weapons by the Rebels.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, flyboy56 said:

Going back to July of 2012 there has been no proven attack with chemical weapons by the Rebels.

Going back to last month there has been no PROVEN attack with chemical weapons by Assad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, flyboy56 said:

Going back to July of 2012 there has been no proven attack with chemical weapons by the Rebels.

That’s false. Here’s an article from 2013:

(Reuters) - U.N. human rights investigators have gathered testimony from casualties of Syria's civil war and medical staff indicating that rebel forces have used the nerve agent sarin, one of the lead investigators said on Sunday.

The United Nations independent commission of inquiry on Syria has not yet seen evidence of government forces having used chemical weapons, which are banned under international law, said commission member Carla Del Ponte.

"Our investigators have been in neighboring countries interviewing victims, doctors and field hospitals and, according to their report of last week which I have seen, there are strong, concrete suspicions but not yet incontrovertible proof of the use of sarin gas, from the way the victims were treated," Del Ponte said in an interview with Swiss-Italian television.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-syria-crisis-un/u-n-has-testimony-that-syrian-rebels-used-sarin-gas-investigator-idUSBRE94409Z20130505

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, WKDWZD said:

Going back to last month there has been no PROVEN attack with chemical weapons by Assad.

And just less than two years ago, well after the Syria regime claimed all chemical weapons were removed, it was determined they attacked civilians with sarin nerve agent. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

6 minutes ago, soulflower said:

That’s false. Here’s an article from 2013:

 

(Reuters) - U.N. human rights investigators have gathered testimony from casualties of Syria's civil war and medical staff indicating that rebel forces have used the nerve agent sarin, one of the lead investigators said on Sunday.

The United Nations independent commission of inquiry on Syria has not yet seen evidence of government forces having used chemical weapons, which are banned under international law, said commission member Carla Del Ponte.

"Our investigators have been in neighboring countries interviewing victims, doctors and field hospitals and, according to their report of last week which I have seen, there are strong, concrete suspicions but not yet incontrovertible proof of the use of sarin gas, from the way the victims were treated," Del Ponte said in an interview with Swiss-Italian television.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-syria-crisis-un/u-n-has-testimony-that-syrian-rebels-used-sarin-gas-investigator-idUSBRE94409Z20130505

"Indicated" and "not yet incontrovertible proof" is far different than proven. OPCW along with the UN have never found the proof showing Rebels used chemical agents going back to 2012. Maybe I missed it. See if you can find it the timeline Rebels it was proven Rebels used chemical agents.

https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/Timeline-of-Syrian-Chemical-Weapons-Activity

Edited by flyboy56

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A British journalist visited the area where the recent Chemical attack is alleged to have happened and he found almost no local Syrians who knew anything about it:

Before we go any further, readers should be aware that this is not the only story in Douma. There are the many people I talked to amid the ruins of the town who said they had “never believed in” gas stories – which were usually put about, they claimed, by the armed Islamist groups. These particular jihadis survived under a blizzard of shellfire by living in other’s people’s homes and in vast, wide tunnels with underground roads carved through the living rock by prisoners with pick-axes on three levels beneath the town. I walked through three of them yesterday, vast corridors of living rock which still contained Russian – yes, Russian – rockets and burned-out cars.

So the story of Douma is thus not just a story of gas – or no gas, as the case may be. It’s about thousands of people who did not opt for evacuation from Douma on buses that left last week, alongside the gunmen with whom they had to live like troglodytes for months in order to survive. I walked across this town quite freely yesterday without soldier, policeman or minder to haunt my footsteps, just two Syrian friends, a camera and a notebook. I sometimes had to clamber across 20-foot-high ramparts, up and down almost sheer walls of earth. Happy to see foreigners among them, happier still that the siege is finally over, they are mostly smiling; those whose faces you can see, of course, because a surprising number of Douma’s women wear full-length black hijab.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/syria-chemical-attack-gas-douma-robert-fisk-ghouta-damascus-a8307726.html?amp

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0