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outerbanks

Damaging column on who is to blame

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Orioles Hangout where I am banned from posting is promising a tell all article on who is to blame for this mess. Speculation is that Brady is going to be named the villain and Dan is nothing but a figure head right now with no power. 

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Even when Big Dan had “power” he was ineffective.

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A Duquette team made it to the ALCS, that has to count for something. There are currently teams out there that haven't made it that deep into the playoffs in decades.

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Posted (edited)

There was also Ken Rosenthal's latest column in The Athletic, a subscriber-only publication, which was also referenced over there.

To wit, Duquette considered firing Roger McDowell last season, and both McDowell and Scott Coolbaugh could be let go. Buck is likely to be in the organization next season, either as the manager or in a front-office capacity. He would also likely fight any shakeup of his coaching staff. No word on any internal candidate to replace either should they be let go.

The Angelos sons are apparently closer to a breaking point with Duquette (which will likely delight or disappoint a certain poster), and could be more sensitive to a change. There's also speculation that Duquette could be ousted sooner if he pushes for a coaching change. Brian Graham, who is currently director of player development for the Orioles, has been mentioned as a possible in-season replacement.

I'm always a tad skeptical of these "tell all" stories, particularly when they're being promoted before the fact. (Think ESPN and the Patriots last fall.) In this age of click bait, oftentimes they're little more than just that.

 

Edited by mdrunning

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2 hours ago, pitbull said:

Even when Big Dan had “power” he was ineffective.

Toronto obviously didn't share that opinion.

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Ken Rosenthal has an article today but you need a subscription to read it.

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If Showalter is here next season, no matter what position he holds, then nothing will change. Unless all these stories are completely false, he is the guy in charge. Brady has say, but he is subordinate to Buck, in the same way the the Angelos Bros. are subordinate to their father. The power may be shifting, and Cobb is an example of why I still have hope for the future of the team. But it hasn't shifted yet. Pete is still the final authority, and Buck is his man.  

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Posted (edited)

It'll be interesting to see what their final attendance numbers are at the end of the year.  There was that Rays game a few weeks ago at home where they cancelled early even though it hadn't really rained much yet, they were just calling for rain later on.  Which might sound reasonable, except if you recall, the Orioles have NEVER been one to call off home games early or quickly... and will usually do all they can to open the gates so that some folks will buy food and drink, they can run some commercials while talking about the weather, etc. all before the inevitable call-off decision.  No... I'd bet their pre-game ticket sales for that one (Rays at home on a Tuesday night) were so bad that they knew they'd eclipse their two-week-old record for smallest home crowd.

 

Edited by Ravens2006

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Buck probably lost me for good in October of 2016.  :)  Still the dumbest managerial decision, given what was on the line, I've ever, ever seen.

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1 minute ago, Ravens2006 said:

It'll be interesting to see what their final attendance numbers are at the end of the year.  There was that Rays game a few weeks ago at home where they cancelled early even though it hadn't really rained much yet, they were just calling for rain later on.  Which might sound reasonable, except if you recall, the Orioles have NEVER been one to call off home games early or quickly... and will usually do all they can to open the gates so that some folks will buy food and drink before the inevitable call-off decision.  No... I'd bet their pre-game ticket sales for that one (Rays at home on a Tuesday night) were so bad that they knew they'd eclipse their two-week-old record for smallest home crowd.

 

I play softball on Tuesday nights, and they cancelled our games too. Which bummed us out, because the rain didn't start until 8:00. But it did rain, and it lasted all night. In this isolated case, I think it truly was just based on the forecast. 

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1 hour ago, Ravens2006 said:

Buck probably lost me for good in October of 2016.  :)  Still the dumbest managerial decision, given what was on the line, I've ever, ever seen.

Buck was once a manager who was brilliant at putting guys in situations where they could succeed. Then a switch flipped, and he started putting guys in situations where, if they succeeded, they would feel really good about themselves, and may catch fire. Unfortunately, the only fire was in the dumpster that is the Bucktimore Orioles.

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11 hours ago, pitbull said:

Even when Big Dan had “power” he was ineffective.

In the end, the faults of this organization can be laid at Angelos' feet. Duquette had some good signings and some terrible ones. We'll never know who else played a part in making many of those signings but it appears Brady, Pete and Buck have had a lot of influence.

Your signaling out Duquette is ignorant of all the other issues with the organization.

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2 hours ago, bleedingorangeandblack said:

 

Too many cooks.....

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4 hours ago, weird-O said:

If Showalter is here next season, no matter what position he holds, then nothing will change. Unless all these stories are completely false, he is the guy in charge. Brady has say, but he is subordinate to Buck, in the same way the the Angelos Bros. are subordinate to their father. The power may be shifting, and Cobb is an example of why I still have hope for the future of the team. But it hasn't shifted yet. Pete is still the final authority, and Buck is his man.  

Agree.  There is plenty of blame to go around with this mess between Buck, Brady, DD and the Angelos 3.  But I have Buck on top of the food chain ahead of Brady and DD.  What I'm afraid will happen is that Buck and Brady will band together and convince the Angelos 3 that its all DDs fault.  We can fix this if he is out of the way.  DD will be the scapegoat.  And a big part of the fan base will fall for it.  And nothing will change.  

Just hope the Baby Bros are smart enough to see all 3 guys they have in place aren't getting it done and the committee approach their father preferred is an utter disaster.

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3 hours ago, Pickle20 said:

Your signaling out Duquette is ignorant of all the other issues with the organization.

?????

Believe me, I am very well aware that in 26 years of ownership, this fact speaks for itself: the Peter Angelos led Orioles have amassed  just 7 winning seasons.

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The loyalty to coaches, managers excluded, under Peter Angelos has been staggering. Remember Lee Mazzilli had to take on these misfits. Plus what’s with Angelos family love affair with Terry Crowley? His impatient approach at the plate has poisoned hitters in this organization and is a sigh of relief to opposing pitchers pitch counts. 

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Buck became dead to me after the Britton game.

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Posted (edited)

I've heard it mentioned several times that some players, and particularly the older veterans, may have tuned Buck out by now. Unless the dynamic of the team changes dramatically between now and next season, that may be problematic if Buck is still the manager. This current group is older, less talented, and probably not terribly receptive to whoever would be in charge.

I saw the Dan Connolly column today as well, and I'm frankly not surprised that no one got canned, and particularly Duquette. Angelos simply does not bring in new GM's while he's still paying for a current one. He'll just sit them outside the door and wait until their contracts formally expire.

Firing Coolbaugh and/or McDowell at this stage isn't going to change anything. They could both be gone after the season, but I don't see how in-season moves such as these are going to help. 

Edited by mdrunning

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Posted (edited)

8 hours ago, mdrunning said:

I've heard it mentioned several times that some players, and particularly the older veterans, may have tuned Buck out by now. Unless the dynamic of the team changes dramatically between now and next season, that may be problematic if Buck is still the manager. This current group is older, less talented, and probably not terribly receptive to whoever would be in charge.

I saw the Dan Connolly column today as well, and I'm frankly not surprised that no one got canned, and particularly Duquette. Angelos simply does not bring in new GM's while he's still paying for a current one. He'll just sit them outside the door and wait until their contracts formally expire.

Firing Coolbaugh and/or McDowell at this stage isn't going to change anything. They could both be gone after the season, but I don't see how in-season moves such as these are going to help. 

In the excerpts I've seen from Rosenthal plus all the other national and local articles I've seen on the O's mess, Buck continues to get a free pass.  Its like he can only do so much with the players he was given.  And Buck can name his job for next year whether its manager or the FO.  I can see this from MASN or the SUN, but its hard to believe the National media doesn't realize Buck is the most powerful guy in the organization below the Angelos 3.  And he seems to have zero accountability with this mess.  Unreal.   Maybe there was more in the Rosenthal article I didn't see.  But geez, Buck has a big part of this mess and he seems to be Teflon.

I didn't see the Connolly article. Any Buck criticism in there?

Edited by CROUSEMAN

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Posted (edited)

I've heard former MLB pitchers say, anyone who blames a pitching coach for the poor performance of the staff, doesn't understand the game. 

I'll take these men at their word. But it begs the question, why have a pitching coach, if they have no influence on results?

Edited by weird-O

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4 minutes ago, weird-O said:

I've heard former MLB pitchers say, anyone who blames a pitching coach for the poor performance of the staff, doesn't understand the game. 

I'll take these men at their word. But it begs the question, why have a pitching coach, if they have no influence on results?

Buck will never allow Coolbaugh or McDowell to be fired.  

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While there is a lot of blame to go around, the main blame goes back to the one person there through it all. Until he takes his paws away - same as it ever was.

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46 minutes ago, NCBirdfan said:

While there is a lot of blame to go around, the main blame goes back to the one person there through it all. Until he takes his paws away - same as it ever was.

The problem then becomes his offspring. 

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On 5/6/2018 at 10:19 PM, outerbanks said:

Orioles Hangout where I am banned from posting is promising a tell all article on who is to blame for this mess. Speculation is that Brady is going to be named the villain and Dan is nothing but a figure head right now with no power. 

Tony Pente runs that site, he has a history of hyping up stories he writes. 

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