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NCBirdfan

The Orioles Need A Complete Overhaul

79 posts in this topic

4 minutes ago, weird-O said:

Here's the most important thing to remember about the majority owner. He's the smartest man in the room. 

So any reformed FO will be based on that hard and fast rule. As such, Brady may be our best hope for a competitive 2019 team. I'm not basing that opinion on his executive prowess. I don't know how good/bad he could be. But I know the best chance to influence payroll decisions, is if Pete has trust in the guy who is presenting those suggestions. Pete has full faith in Buck, and that heavily influenced the GM process, since it was made clear to all prospective candidates, that they would be power -sharing with Buck, rather than the traditional owner - GM - manger structure. 

That's why my ideal scenario, and by that I mean, a possible scenario, is that Buck move on. This will free Brady to totally take the reins. He'll hire his manager, and that will restore some normalcy to the hierarchy of the warehouse. And since Brady appears to be close friends with the sons, they may be able to influence other good FA acquisitions like they did with Cobb. Think about that signing for a moment. That was a halle-freakin'-lujah moment. The O's signed a really good pitcher, even in it was to a below market contract. It's a start, because 4 year deals were off the table, after UJ. But Brady and the boys made that happen. 

If Buck stays, he's still the ranking general. No matter how well Brady and Buck get along, Brady will continue to be his subordinate. If, as it is so heavily written about, Buck is the guy who is filling the roster with Rasmus, Alvarez, Davis types, Brady won't be able to shift away from that philosophy, if he wants to. And I admit, that's not something I know for sure. Brady may be in lock step with Buck, but if he isn't, he'll have to be, if he wants to stay employed.   

Very well said. I am intrigued by Brady's future with the O's. 

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Posted (edited)

3 minutes ago, Bowie-Bruce said:

Very well said. I am intrigued by Brady's future with the O's. 

I'm not. He seems to think he can turn ugly ducklings into the Prom Queen. No thanks.

Edited by Pickle20

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50 minutes ago, Mr. Buzzcut said:

Nothing good can be accomplished without cashiering anyone involved in this mess.

It's probably going to be five months before we get to that point, if it even happens.

Shoulda started after 2016.

 

Well, hindsight is 2020, but definitely should have moved some players by the July TD last year. I heard we're like 61-101 over our last 162 or something like that. This is a bad, bad team and a full rebuild should be in order. Only safe players that are worth anything should be Bundy and Schoop. Trade everyone else of value.

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17 minutes ago, Pickle20 said:

I'm not. He seems to think he can turn ugly ducklings into the Prom Queen. No thanks.

Good point, and I'm overlooking that. The Wright situation is egg on Brady's face. And Tilly seems to be another Brady/Buck love child. I just have to focus on the possible positives of having a GM that the owner trusts.  

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6 hours ago, CROUSEMAN said:

Buck has gone soft.  Letting his players run the team.  Manny forces way to short, he bends to Davis on where he bats, continues to let Tilly start because he personally likes him.  These are all fireable offenses when your team is what 8-26.  Dreadful moves.  Have all backfired and have cost this team wins.

Very true.  One thing Earl Weaver NEVER allowed was getting too close to any of his players.  Most of them couldn't stand him but they respected him as a manager and he had a won-loss record to back up his talk.  Everyone was treated the same by Earl and the ultimate objective was winning.   Whether you were Frank Robinson or Chico Salmon, you were expected to play the game the right way, which ultimately became the Oriole Way.  

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On 5/8/2018 at 6:36 PM, jamesdean said:

Very true.  One thing Earl Weaver NEVER allowed was getting too close to any of his players.  Most of them couldn't stand him but they respected him as a manager and he had a won-loss record to back up his talk.  Everyone was treated the same by Earl and the ultimate objective was winning.   Whether you were Frank Robinson or Chico Salmon, you were expected to play the game the right way, which ultimately became the Oriole Way.  

We were all spoiled with Earl Weaver. He expected results from his players. Now all we have are excuses.

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On 5/8/2018 at 0:48 PM, CROUSEMAN said:

Buck has gone soft.  Letting his players run the team.  Manny forces way to short, he bends to Davis on where he bats, continues to let Tilly start because he personally likes him.  These are all fireable offenses when your team is what 8-26.  Dreadful moves.  Have all backfired and have cost this team wins.

If that's so, then the trouble with that approach is that when you defer to some players, it typically means you are not deferring to others. 

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6 hours ago, mdrunning said:

If that's so, then the trouble with that approach is that when you defer to some players, it typically means you are not deferring to others. 

"His Guys",  Guys with track records"  "Guys he trusts".  Its all hogwash.  Its not working anymore that's undisputable.   

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Posted (edited)

The more Machado tears it up the more disappointed and angry I am with the Orioles management (if that’s even possible).  Sickening really  

The entire front office, ownership (good luck there) and manager should all be fired and removed for how they’ve botched the Machado situation.  This team could’ve built a perennial contender around Machado and J Schoop but instead they’ve  completely blown a once in a lifetime opportunity. 

Imagine having these two commanding the middle of the infield and batting next to each other in the lineup for years. Best friends also.

What an absolute joke. Instead they invest hundreds of millions in the Strikeout King Chris Davis and other bloated all or none guys like Trumbo.  Disgusted 

 

Edited by BayAreaBmore

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Ignoring the need to clean up management at all levels and assuming Bundy is simply in a funk, and that Hess and H Harvey are for real, the complete overhaul can primarily focus on SS, 3B and RF.  That's not insurmountable. 

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26 minutes ago, Struds said:

Ignoring the need to clean up management at all levels and assuming Bundy is simply in a funk, and that Hess and H Harvey are for real, the complete overhaul can primarily focus on SS, 3B and RF.  That's not insurmountable. 

Those are certainly positions that (after Manny is gone) will be empty but would be nice to get some major league caliber players at other positions as well. Catcher, 1B, LF, DH and some more pitching including bullpen 

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6 minutes ago, BayAreaBmore said:

Those are certainly positions that (after Manny is gone) will be empty but would be nice to get some major league caliber players at other positions as well. Catcher, 1B, LF, DH and some more pitching including bullpen 

Sure, but everything cannot be fixed at once, and I assumed we are saddled with CD at 1B for 3 more long years. I guess my point was that this team can be competitive as early as 2020 without going through another extended period of awfulness. That idea, of course, depends on a competent FO. So, it may be a pipe dream.

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3 minutes ago, Struds said:

Sure, but everything cannot be fixed at once, and I assumed we are saddled with CD at 1B for 3 more long years. I guess my point was that this team can be competitive as early as 2020 without going through another extended period of awfulness. That idea, of course, depends on a competent FO. So, it may be a pipe dream.

Good points. That’s the main concern. The level of incompetence is stunning. Makes one wonder how badly they’ll botch any potential trades for Manny etc

And the thought of watching Davis continue to sink the ship on the field for several more years along with stubborn ole Buckaroo is nauseating 

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On ‎5‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 4:43 PM, BayAreaBmore said:

The more Machado tears it up the more disappointed and angry I am with the Orioles management (if that’s even possible).  Sickening really  

The entire front office, ownership (good luck there) and manager should all be fired and removed for how they’ve botched the Machado situation.  This team could’ve built a perennial contender around Machado and J Schoop but instead they’ve  completely blown a once in a lifetime opportunity. 

Imagine having these two commanding the middle of the infield and batting next to each other in the lineup for years. Best friends also.

What an absolute joke. Instead they invest hundreds of millions in the Strikeout King Chris Davis and other bloated all or none guys like Trumbo.  Disgusted 

 

Yeah a franchise crushing mis-step hanging their hat on Krush and not keeping their powder dry for Manny.  With the Yanks seemingly out of the mix for Manny,  there may be a shred of hope we can get him back.  The market has to keep declining though like last year.  The ideal situation would be for the O's to pull off what the Yanks did.  They traded Chapman for a kings ransom, then signed him back in the winter.  Helped turn around the franchise in one year.

But DD/Brady/Buck no Cashman so forget about it.

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, CROUSEMAN said:

Yeah a franchise crushing mis-step hanging their hat on Krush and not keeping their powder dry for Manny.  With the Yanks seemingly out of the mix for Manny,  there may be a shred of hope we can get him back.  The market has to keep declining though like last year.  The ideal situation would be for the O's to pull off what the Yanks did.  They traded Chapman for a kings ransom, then signed him back in the winter.  Helped turn around the franchise in one year.

But DD/Brady/Buck no Cashman so forget about it.

My biggest criticism for DD, is that he never seemed to display any foresight. Everything he's done in Baltimore, always seemed to be reactive, never proactive. And that fits right in with the Angelos way. Pete doesn't buy out arbitration years, in exchange for a discount on extension years. I suppose that's because he truly believes that playing for the Orioles is an honor, and to be awarded that honor, you need to  be willing to work for lesser pay. Also, Pete doesn't like to "litigate" with his pending free agents, until the rest of the league has an equal chance. Which is what made the AJ extension such a shocking surprise. It's the only example (that comes to my mind) where Pete allowed his GM to negotiate with a player who was still under contract. I suppose a Ripken extension was handled that way, but that doesn't really count, since Cal only wanted to play for Baltimore. Even when Manny had his people present an extension offer to the team, they told him to sit tight and wait until they were ready to negotiate with him. 

Edited by weird-O

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1 minute ago, weird-O said:

My biggest criticism for DD, is that he never seemed to display any foresight. Everything he's done in Baltimore, always seemed to be reactive, never proactive. And that fits right in with the Angelos way. Pete doesn't buy out arbitration years, in exchange for a discount on extension years. I suppose that's because he truly believes that playing for the Orioles is an honor, and to be awarded that honor, you need to  be willing to work for lesser pay. Also, Pete doesn't like to "litigate" with his pending free agents, until the rest of the league has an equal chance. Which is what made the AJ extension such a shocking surprise. It's the only example (that comes to my mind) where Pete allowed his GM to negotiate with a player who was still under contract. I suppose a Ripken extension was handled that way, but that doesn't really count, since Cal only wanted to play for Baltimore.

Yeah this has been a dark hole for the franchise on not being proactive.  I put this on ownership as they can't agree on anything until a gun is to their head.  I think they did an extension with Markakis???  Not sure which GM did it.  Beattie/Flanny??

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2 hours ago, CROUSEMAN said:

Yeah a franchise crushing mis-step hanging their hat on Krush and not keeping their powder dry for Manny.  With the Yanks seemingly out of the mix for Manny,  there may be a shred of hope we can get him back.  The market has to keep declining though like last year.  The ideal situation would be for the O's to pull off what the Yanks did.  They traded Chapman for a kings ransom, then signed him back in the winter.  Helped turn around the franchise in one year.

But DD/Brady/Buck no Cashman so forget about it.

The noise you hear during this recent winning surge is the sound of the door slamming on any hopes of a complete overhaul by the All-Star break.  That was always going to be the biggest problem- win just enough in the fight towards .500 and ignore the long term future. 

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15 minutes ago, jamesdean said:

The noise you hear during this recent winning surge is the sound of the door slamming on any hopes of a complete overhaul by the All-Star break.  That was always going to be the biggest problem- win just enough in the fight towards .500 and ignore the long term future. 

Yeah there will be no complete overhaul.  If we are lucky, we trade 2 of Manny, Jones, Brach and Britton.  Then a small re-tool for 2019.  Ownership will be convinced that the starting pitching and a small core of decent regulars is enough to compete next year.  Add Moustakas and some back end relief pitching.   And you know they will continue to pitch bounce back years by Davis and Trumbo, LOL!!!!!  

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1 hour ago, CROUSEMAN said:

Yeah there will be no complete overhaul.  If we are lucky, we trade 2 of Manny, Jones, Brach and Britton.  Then a small re-tool for 2019.  Ownership will be convinced that the starting pitching and a small core of decent regulars is enough to compete next year.  Add Moustakas and some back end relief pitching.   And you know they will continue to pitch bounce back years by Davis and Trumbo, LOL!!!!!  

It's a shame, really.  I think most of the fans that are loyal to the team would favor a complete rebuild.  The problem is they really don't have anyone in place with ownership or management that have that kind of vision.  And without that, you have no chance. 

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4 minutes ago, jamesdean said:

It's a shame, really.  I think most of the fans that are loyal to the team would favor a complete rebuild.  The problem is they really don't have anyone in place with ownership or management that have that kind of vision.  And without that, you have no chance. 

Exactly.  And Buck and Brady will still be here fumbling around with their same approach.  Getting guys they personally like and that have old track records, but can't play anymore. The Angelos 3 have still bought into this hook, line and sinker.  Whatever Buck says is gold baby, gold!!  Even though he has lost about 100 games in the last year, LOL!!!!!

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Yippee.

They beat up on two teams that are as rotten as they are.

BUY! BUY! BUY!

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28 minutes ago, Mr. Buzzcut said:

Yippee.

They beat up on two teams that are as rotten as they are.

BUY! BUY! BUY!

This

But they'll sell it as "the turning point" 

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3 minutes ago, weird-O said:

This

But they'll sell it as "the turning point" 

Yep, plus come out to the Yard and see Manny push for the MVP!!!!  No sell needed.

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2 minutes ago, CROUSEMAN said:

Yep, plus come out to the Yard and see Manny push for the MVP!!!!  No sell needed.

Could be a perfect storm brewing for the O's to get max return for Manny.  At least 3 or 4 teams could use him tp push them over the top at SS and Manny is absolutely lights out.  But the O's will probably turn their nose up at any offer that is made.  Buck will be holding on to the deck railing for all its worth, LOL!!!!  We can make a run!   And Tilly is coming back to give us a rotation boost :rolleyes:  Really, Buck is just delusional sometimes.  

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I still think they're only going to get a compensation pick for Manny.

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