Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
NCBirdfan

The Orioles Need A Complete Overhaul

79 posts in this topic

4 hours ago, mdrunning said:

The only trouble with "blowing it up" and adopting a lose now approach, is that you'd better damn well be right. 

It's a sound approach on paper only. The game isn't played in a vaccuum, and for every example such as the Cubs or Astros, who were miserable before they both became very good, there are also teams such as the Padres, who have tried a number of different approaches to getting out of the cellar, or the White Sox, who have seemingly been in rebuild mode since the Russian Revolution. The Reds have also been rebuilding for a while now, and have very little show for their efforts, or lack of the same. Their farm system still lags far behind that of, say, the Phillies.

The Cubs and Astros did a lot of things right, but they were also lucky in a few instances. The Cubs hit the jackpot with Jake Arrieta, while people tend to forget that Houston had two consecutive whiffs with consecutive first-round picks in Mark Appel and Brady Aiken. Then there's Washington, which had the good fortune of having no-brainer No. 1 picks--Stephen Strasburg and Bryce Harper--fall in their laps in successive years.

And if the idea is to completely bottom out and draft a stud, that approach isn't fool-proof as it may seem, either. Of the No. 1 overall picks taken since 1987, only two, Ken Griffey, Jr. and Chipper Jones, are now Hall of Famers, although A-Rod, had his career not been tainted by scandal, was certainly on the straight and narrow to the Hall. Bryce Harper may one day join that elite group as well. Still, the percentages suggest that even players taken that high have a better chance of winding up total busts or in the Hall of Just Pretty Good. 

The peril of starting over is that every tank job isn't going to result in the Cubs or the Astros.

 

The point being that if you're going to blow it up, you better have the right people in place setting the dynamite.  With current Oriole management, I would have very little faith in the process being done right.  Still, I'd rather see them at least try as opposed to being on an endless treadmill of mediocrity. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, weird-O said:

I heard a little of the mid-day show on the Fan. I forget the name of the guy who was filling in. But he was asked about the O's recent hot streak, and how he sees the season unfolding. He said he isn't persuaded by the short spell of offensive power, and that it's important to remember that the O's will have a few of these bursts, since even really terrible teams (and he included the O's as a terrible team) will win 60-ish games. As for the season, he said his biggest concern, is if the O's find themselves remotely close to a WC position, and decide to buy at the deadline. If that happens, he believes it will turn out to be another Parra situation, where they give up a player, even if he's just another Zach Davies type. He said the O's are a really bad team, and even if they somehow manage to compete with the other mediocre WC hopefuls, they aren't good enough to advance against the Astros, Indians, Bo-Sox, etc. 

He said they need to blow it up. And dedicate themselves to losing. Asked about trading away guys, he said he's concerned, because A) a lame duck GM (DD) shouldn't be involved at all, and B ) who knows who is handling the "GM" duties, and is he/they (Brady/Brady-Buck) skilled enough to handle the trades. He specifically mentioned that comp picks are unacceptable as a return for the loss of Manny. He also said there is reason to be concerned that the O's would even know how to properly approach a rebuild.  

That's all I can remember, but he has obviously thought about the situation. And it was good to hear someone publicly share and agree with things that many of us have been posting.      

Just my take, but the Baby Bros didn't spend 57mil of Pappy's money on Cobb to "blow it up" after a couple months.  As it has been mentioned on this thread, with Bundy, Gausman, Cashner and Harvey coming back next year the O's will have their best starting pitching in years.  So I just can't see them doing a "blow up".   As I said before, I thing its a re-tool.

Get a third baseman,  a high OBP OF with some speed and defense and 2 back end relief pitchers. I'm not advocating this approach, I just see the O's going this way.

The bottom line for me is that the quickest way to get this team on a different track is to get a new manager.   Buck is getting zero out of this team this year. Zero.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, CROUSEMAN said:

Just my take, but the Baby Bros didn't spend 57mil of Pappy's money on Cobb to "blow it up" after a couple months.  As it has been mentioned on this thread, with Bundy, Gausman, Cashner and Harvey coming back next year the O's will have their best starting pitching in years.  So I just can't see them doing a "blow up".   As I said before, I thing its a re-tool.

Get a third baseman,  a high OBP OF with some speed and defense and 2 back end relief pitchers. I'm not advocating this approach, I just see the O's going this way.

The bottom line for me is that the quickest way to get this team on a different track is to get a new manager.   Buck is getting zero out of this team this year. Zero.

Don't forget, you also need a shortstop.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, mdrunning said:

The only trouble with "blowing it up" and adopting a lose now approach, is that you'd better damn well be right. 

It's a sound approach on paper only. The game isn't played in a vaccuum, and for every example such as the Cubs or Astros, who were miserable before they both became very good, there are also teams such as the Padres, who have tried a number of different approaches to getting out of the cellar, or the White Sox, who have seemingly been in rebuild mode since the Russian Revolution. The Reds have also been rebuilding for a while now, and have very little show for their efforts, or lack of the same. Their farm system still lags far behind that of, say, the Phillies.

The Cubs and Astros did a lot of things right, but they were also lucky in a few instances. The Cubs hit the jackpot with Jake Arrieta, while people tend to forget that Houston had two consecutive whiffs with consecutive first-round picks in Mark Appel and Brady Aiken. Then there's Washington, which had the good fortune of having no-brainer No. 1 picks--Stephen Strasburg and Bryce Harper--fall in their laps in successive years.

And if the idea is to completely bottom out and draft a stud, that approach isn't fool-proof as it may seem, either. Of the No. 1 overall picks taken since 1987, only two, Ken Griffey, Jr. and Chipper Jones, are now Hall of Famers, although A-Rod, had his career not been tainted by scandal, was certainly on the straight and narrow to the Hall. Bryce Harper may one day join that elite group as well. Still, the percentages suggest that even players taken that high have a better chance of winding up total busts or in the Hall of Just Pretty Good. 

The peril of starting over is that every tank job isn't going to result in the Cubs or the Astros.

 

I agree with you, rebuilding isn't as simple as collecting a string of top 5 draft picks. But that wouldn't be all that the O's would be doing. They would also trade away players, and that would be another source of young, controllable talent. And I'm not just talking about the pending free agents. I would put up a sign that said, "everyone must go". Regarding your examples of failed rebuild efforts. I don't think any of those team ever entered into a true rebuild. The Padres changed GMs mid-stream. The new guy came in, and traded away all their highly rated prospects, for short term rentals. He also gave out crazy overpriced contracts to guys like James Shields. And he's a great segue to Chicago. They traded for Shields, and signed Abreu, among others. That wasn't a rebuild, it was a re-tool. And the Reds have no vision. They just run in million different directions at once. 

Personally, I think the O's could re-tool this winter, and compete next year. But it will require a new manager. And the effort will be hampered by the GM search. If they hire from the outside, it will take them all winter to make their choice.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0