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Tension in Gaza as Palestinians begin to bury 58 dead

93 posts in this topic

6 minutes ago, Papi said:

I don't have an extreme pro-Israel position. Quite frankly I think they are an arrogant bunch. But I said that I UNDERSTAND their perspective, given the avowed desire of Hamas to eradicate both the Jewish state and the Jewish people. Anyone who hitches their star to Hamas becomes an enemy by default. 

When I was in school I don't recall any kind of "indoctrination" about Israel. They were not even a mention in my social studies classes in high school (which was 1964-1966). My most vivid memory about the state of Israel from back in those times was the movie Exodus, which I didn't even like, and the news about the 1967 3 day war.

The US political position in support of Israel is something over which I have zero influence, but it has been consistent across every administration since 1948, regardless of the party in power. My personal opinion is that such consistent support is simply the result of the huge influence of the American Jewish population, which controls an enormous amount of power and wealth across the economy and (therefore) government. 

The indoctrination is more a matter of omission. Hasbara (Israeli spin) certainly exists though it will nearly get you arrested for merely suggesting it shapes the way American news covers Israel. If you are fed a diet of Big Macs it's a startling change and vaguely wrong to be suddenly fed nonprocessed food. That's where America is and has been regarding Israel. The Trump administration is also roughly in the same boat as Bibi and his lovely wife with corruption investigations nipping at their ankles. So our Israeli alliance has a new corrupt angle as well as the evangelical  payback element that dumpsterfire feels the need to reward. 

The ME needs a total rewrite. 

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7 hours ago, Ode2Joy said:

Nope.  Not at all.  The deflection on this thread is by those who can't bring themselves to acknowledge that Israel itself is legally defined as a democratic AND a Jewish state.  You can't separate the Jewish aspect from Israel's existence.

Israel is celebrating its 70th birthday as an independent state by choosing to do so when they had the opportunity and by winning the 1947 war with the Arabs.

They now occupy Gaza because they were again attacked and aren't going to bare their throats to Hamas.  Hamas "celebrated" Israel's 70th by provoking and attacking Israel's border for PR purposes, resulting in at least 58 attackers, or people that the attackers hid behind, being killed. 

I'm not an evangelical or Jewish, but I choose Israel over Hamas each and every time.  The problem that many have with Israel is that Israel exists. 

The next time anyone on here brings up those white nationalist protesters in Virginia, just remember that they were the ones chanting "JEWS WILL NOT REPLACE US!"  You cannot honestly and realistically separate Israel and its Jewish aspect which is legally and intrinsically part of what Israel is.

You should move to Israel. Maybe even run for office. :lol:

See how that works???

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12 minutes ago, zenwalk said:

The indoctrination is more a matter of omission. Hasbara (Israeli spin) certainly exists though it will nearly get you arrested for merely suggesting it shapes the way American news covers Israel. If you are fed a diet of Big Macs it's a startling change and vaguely wrong to be suddenly fed nonprocessed food. That's where America is and has been regarding Israel. The Trump administration is also roughly in the same boat as Bibi and his lovely wife with corruption investigations nipping at their ankles. So our Israeli alliance has a new corrupt angle as well as the evangelical  payback element that dumpsterfire feels the need to reward. 

The ME needs a total rewrite. 

I agree with you that the middle east needs a total rewrite. Unfortunately the author of such a rewrite does not exist, and barring the second coming Christ or an alien invasion like the one in Independence Day to bring people together, nothing about the middle east is going to change. :(

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Just now, Papi said:

I agree with you that the middle east needs a total rewrite. Unfortunately the author of such a rewrite does not exist, and barring the second coming Christ or an alien invasion like the one in Independence Day to bring people together, nothing about the middle east is going to change. :(

Even after beating back an alien invasion they would just go back to fighting with each other.

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5 minutes ago, Pickle20 said:

You should move to Israel. Maybe even run for office. :lol:

See how that works???

No.  But if I had to choose between living under Israel's government or under Hamas rule, it'd be a very easy decision for me to make even if you'd have to think about it for a bit.  I'll even toss Iran into the list of choices of Middle East residences and I'd still choose Israel in a split second with no hesitation.

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2 hours ago, Eastside Terp said:

Yea, cause that's what happened ......

Yeah.  He's making it seem like they were singled out as specific targets. Remember how the Israelis crossed over the borders to attack children in nurseries or schools?  Me neither. 

It's like all the threads certain posters started when terrorists did that to schools and buses in Israel, although I can't remember them starting a single thread about that either. 

The deflection is in pretending that Israel is not both a Jewish and a democratic state, and that those two aspects are separate and that religion has nothing to do with the animosity shown toward Israel.   

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26 minutes ago, Ode2Joy said:

Yeah.  He's making it seem like they were singled out as specific targets ...

So were the snipers blindfolded then? :rolleyes:

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1 hour ago, Ode2Joy said:

No.  But if I had to choose between living under Israel's government or under Hamas rule, it'd be a very easy decision for me to make even if you'd have to think about it for a bit.  I'll even toss Iran into the list of choices of Middle East residences and I'd still choose Israel in a split second with no hesitation.

Point is you’re defending the place and you don’t live there. Playing by your rules you need to live somewhere to defend it and talk about it and its people, how they think and what they want. 

I’m just playing by your rules. B)

Edited by Pickle20

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1 hour ago, Papi said:

I agree with you that the middle east needs a total rewrite. Unfortunately the author of such a rewrite does not exist, and barring the second coming Christ or an alien invasion like the one in Independence Day to bring people together, nothing about the middle east is going to change. :(

The policy writes itself when you put American interests as the guiding premise. I had a friend once who built his first house with found materials. Found windows, discount floors, cabinets, plumbing ... you get the idea. The place was an incoherent mess by the time he was done (and it took forever because it was all about expediency). That's our foreign policy most places but especially true in the ME. We can continue to dump billions down the money pit or become a force of charity and fairness through hospitals, charities, education: stuff like we used to be known for. Not who can provide the best rate of return for this that or the other thing. It's hard because we have grown so twisted and apathetic about our conduct in the world that it all seems a million miles away.  Then one day a pair of airliners fly into the Trade Center building. Wake up call?  Not on your life. We double down on dumb because ... well, I don't why other than to change the present course requires going head to head with existing and future corporate profits. It only requires getting in touch with our humanity to know what to do.

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10 minutes ago, Pickle20 said:

Point is you’re defending the place and you don’t live there. Playing by your rules you need to live somewhere to defend it and talk about it and its people, how they think and what they want. 

I’m just playing by your rules. B)

Show me where I ever said that you need to live somewhere in order to talk about it, otherwise you're just making stuff up. 

It's more likely that you heard a third choice alternative besides laurel vs. yanny because I never said any such thing. 

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5 minutes ago, Lombardi6 said:

Yaaayyyyy. More disinformation from the left on this subject.

No surprise there. 

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5 minutes ago, Ode2Joy said:

Show me where I ever said that you need to live somewhere in order to talk about it, otherwise you're just making stuff up. 

It's more likely that you heard a third choice alternative besides laurel vs. yanny because I never said any such thing. 

What’s behind all the “you should move to Baltimore” stuff then?

 

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2 minutes ago, Pickle20 said:

What’s behind all the “you should move to Baltimore” stuff then?

 

I talk about Baltimore and I can assure you that I have NO intentions of moving there.

You can cut your losses now and just admit that I never said - not once - not ever - that you had to live somewhere in order to talk about it. 

If you want, I'll post again over on Locals and you can follow me back over there later on.  :) 

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36 minutes ago, Ode2Joy said:

I talk about Baltimore and I can assure you that I have NO intentions of moving there.

You can cut your losses now and just admit that I never said - not once - not ever - that you had to live somewhere in order to talk about it. 

If you want, I'll post again over on Locals and you can follow me back over there later on.  :) 

I never said you said anything. It comes through clear in your posts which is why I’m trying to get to the bottom of it because honestly I’m confused by your logic. 

Edited by Pickle20

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2 hours ago, zenwalk said:

The policy writes itself when you put American interests as the guiding premise. I had a friend once who built his first house with found materials. Found windows, discount floors, cabinets, plumbing ... you get the idea. The place was an incoherent mess by the time he was done (and it took forever because it was all about expediency). That's our foreign policy most places but especially true in the ME. We can continue to dump billions down the money pit or become a force of charity and fairness through hospitals, charities, education: stuff like we used to be known for. Not who can provide the best rate of return for this that or the other thing. It's hard because we have grown so twisted and apathetic about our conduct in the world that it all seems a million miles away.  Then one day a pair of airliners fly into the Trade Center building. Wake up call?  Not on your life. We double down on dumb because ... well, I don't why other than to change the present course requires going head to head with existing and future corporate profits. It only requires getting in touch with our humanity to know what to do.

Nothing writes itself. If only it were true. :(

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