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mrdeltoid

Racism in Europe

157 posts in this topic

Just now, hst2 said:

Racial distinctions in our society have always been fluid.

Still an F- 

You absolutely refuse to say 'yes I mis-spoke...you are correct'. 

I doubt you ever have on these forums. 

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24 minutes ago, hst2 said:

Good question. say you own a home and Blacks start moving into your community. You consider yourself to not have a racist bone in your body, but you decide to move because historically, property values are apt to go down if the community becomes majority Black. 

On one level, you might have escaped whiteness in that you recognize racism enough to oppose it, but on another level, you are captive to it.

Let's begin by recognizing and acknowledging whiteness. Then we can move to escaping or abolishing it. 

You maybe correct professor...partially.

But when you come down to it.....it is Economics 101. PERIOD.

Show me where section 8's have moved in and prices went up. I can show you plenty where they went down. Any person with a brain can read the tea leafs and see's trends. 

Sorry.....social justice and good feelings don't put money in ones wallet.

BTW I am planning to sell my home in Woodlawn....you interested?

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1 hour ago, Rael said:

Lol. Kind of a broad brush there, hst. You are slipping more and more into being a caricature. 

I made a joke one time about “white girls” on a thread a it was removed for making a racial generalization or something.  I see some post that come right out a call a race one thing or another. I wish I could remember the post but since my crash a lot of this gets jumbled up or lost from memory. 

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Posted (edited)

5 minutes ago, prodigalson1 said:

No, I'm including only assaults and murders that blacks commit against whites. Because Wells Fargo preying on blacks is a different topic and subject and not in the equation of you being assaulted or shot by a black person. 

Now will you answer my original question or no?

You miss the forest for the trees.

By the way, white on white crime is four times more likely than Black on white crime. Why do you give it a pass?

White supremacists' favorite myths about black crime rates take another hit from BJS study

Yeah, they're talking about YOU.

 

Edited by hst2

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Posted (edited)

7 minutes ago, Guido2 said:

You maybe correct professor...partially.

But when you come down to it.....it is Economics 101. PERIOD.

Show me where section 8's have moved in and prices went up. I can show you plenty where they went down. Any person with a brain can read the tea leafs and see's trends. 

Sorry.....social justice and good feelings don't put money in ones wallet.

BTW I am planning to sell my home in Woodlawn....you interested?

Racism and economics have been attached at the hip since the beginning of our concept of race.

Property values don't decline because Blacks move in; they decline because whites move out. And when they do move out, and the tax base erodes, eroding the community with it, the Black communities can become dumping grounds, through things like Section 8 housing.

 

Edited by hst2

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31 minutes ago, hst2 said:

Are you including white crimes such as Wells Fargo preying on Black customers in your equation? If not, why not?

 

10 minutes ago, prodigalson1 said:

No, I'm including only assaults and murders that blacks commit against whites. Because Wells Fargo preying on blacks is a different topic and subject and not in the equation of you being assaulted or shot by a black person. 

Now will you answer my original question or no?

Prod. first off you will never get a straight answer.

And I think that his argument about Wells Fargo is a straw dog:

  1. He seems to think/imply that only blacks got screwed by Wells Fargo which is totally wrong.
  2. Further, after all his noise about red lining by banks and everything else related to finance....well there shouldn't have been all that many blacks affected anyway. Because as has been pointed out by the 'paycheck cashing scandle' most blacks don't have bank accounts because they don't have the assets to open them Or so it is claimed. 

Hst probabaly has a BA in Sociology.....it should have been a BS

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7 minutes ago, hst2 said:

Racism and economics have been attached at the hip since the beginning of our concept of race.

Property values don't decline because Blacks move in; they decline because whites move out. And when they do move out, and the tax base erodes, eroding the community with it, the Black communities can become dumping grounds, through things like Section 8 housing.

 

So once again it is whitey's fault for protecting their assets. 

And what I bolded is garbage. Did the educational opportunities move....did the job opportunities move....did more well to move black families move in to fill the vacuum  left and work with there brothers to uplift themselves?

Answers: NO......NO.....and NO.

You remind me of a dog chained to a tree....runs around in circles ….thinking he is making head way....but it gets nowhere in invariably ends up in the same place. 

 

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20 minutes ago, hst2 said:

You miss the forest for the trees.

By the way, white on white crime is four times more likely than Black on white crime. Why do you give it a pass?

White supremacists' favorite myths about black crime rates take another hit from BJS study

Yeah, they're talking about YOU.

 

Probably because white people are smart enough ( or scared enough) not to put themselves in a position like that.

I would also image....using your sentence above. ……….

By the way, white on white black on black crime is four times more likely than Black white on white crime.

Especially homicides.

See Baltimore for a reference as needed. 

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Posted (edited)

8 minutes ago, Guido2 said:

Probably because white people are smart enough ( or scared enough) not to put themselves in a position like that.

I would also image....using your sentence above. ……….

By the way, white on white black on black crime is four times more likely than Black white on white crime.

Especially homicides.

See Baltimore for a reference as needed. 

Black on Black crime has always been high for the simple reason that we don't care about it. we don't offer them justice, so they mete it out among themselves. Not unlike other societies where marginalized people are denied any semblance of human dignity.

 

 

Edited by hst2

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, hst2 said:

Black on Black crime has always been high for the simple reason that we don't care about it. we don't offer them justice, so they mete it out among themselves. Not unlike other societies where marginalized people are denied any semblance of human dignity.

 

 

🙄:rolleyes:

Edited by Guido2

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2 hours ago, hst2 said:

Black on Black crime has always been high for the simple reason that we don't care about it. we don't offer them justice, so they mete it out among themselves. Not unlike other societies where marginalized people are denied any semblance of human dignity.

 

 

The criminal justice system in Baltimore City is under the control of a black States Attorney, the police chief is black and so are most of the jurors so I guess the "we" is not just white people.

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2 hours ago, hst2 said:

Black on Black crime has always been high for the simple reason that we don't care about it. we don't offer them justice, so they mete it out among themselves. Not unlike other societies where marginalized people are denied any semblance of human dignity.

 

 

Lock em up... don't lock em up.  So confusing!

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37 minutes ago, workerbee said:

Lock em up... don't lock em up.  So confusing!

The vast majority of those who are locked up never had a trial.

Very "confusing".

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42 minutes ago, Smokey 1 said:

The criminal justice system in Baltimore City is under the control of a black States Attorney, the police chief is black and so are most of the jurors so I guess the "we" is not just white people.

The resources they are given sends a very clear message. Its always been that way. There is nothing new about it, not even over the past 50 years. it goes back further.

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17 hours ago, Cameron said:

17%?

And we've come a long way?

We might want to get the log out of our eye before criticizing others:

 

relatively speaking a short period of time compared to Europe.

  

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38 minutes ago, hst2 said:

The resources they are given sends a very clear message. Its always been that way. There is nothing new about it, not even over the past 50 years. it goes back further.

Do you have any evidence that they are underfunded?  A link?

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18 minutes ago, Smokey 1 said:

Do you have any evidence that they are underfunded?  A link?

"Criminologists have for decades argued about what makes young black men so much likelier to commit murder than young men of other ethnicities. The answer lies in some combination of poverty, family instability, epidemics of drug use in the wretched inner-city districts into which many blacks were corralled by racist housing policies, and bad, or non-existent, policing. The last of these, which may be the most important, extends far beyond occasional instances of police brutality. In America’s overtly racist past, the killers of black Americans were less likely to be caught than the killers of whites because black lives were valued less. These days, inadequate resources, recruitment and training of inner-city police officers are bigger problems. Yet the outcome is the same. In the 1930s, Mississippi solved 30% of black murders; in the early 1990s, Los Angeles County, then in the grip of a violent crack-cocaine epidemic, solved 36%; in 2015 the police in Baltimore solved 30.5% of murders, most of which involved blacks."

Link

Great article, btw. I recommend reading the whole thing. and Ghettoside, by Jill Leovy, is a great book.

"Leovy understands that the second terrible burden is that we — and especially the police — have grievously failed to make the community safe. We are not protecting the young men and their families. The violence has raged for generations, and we have not stopped it. The cases get short shrift — in L.A., homicide detectives couldn’t get notebooks or computers at the same time that administrative staffers at headquarters got take-home cars. Black victims too often are diminished or worse; Leovy reports something I first saw nearly 30 years ago — LAPD officers writing “NHI” on homicide incident reports: No Humans Involved. Terrified witnesses stop cooperating, and investigators, carrying huge caseloads, give up. Prosecutors eyeing their conviction rates turn away from cases in which all of those testifying have records and credibility problems."

What you think about dangerous inner-city neighborhoods is wrong

(Emphasis mine)

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22 minutes ago, Smokey 1 said:

Do you have any evidence that they are underfunded?  A link?

"Underfunded" is an inexact, relative word used when a candidate to any office aspires to unseat an incumbent.  See: "Ben Jealous". hst2 can't provide a link.

The word is also a code for "we're gonna raise taxes."

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1 hour ago, hst2 said:

"Criminologists have for decades argued about what makes young black men so much likelier to commit murder than young men of other ethnicities. The answer lies in some combination of poverty, family instability, epidemics of drug use in the wretched inner-city districts into which many blacks were corralled by racist housing policies, and bad, or non-existent, policing. The last of these, which may be the most important, extends far beyond occasional instances of police brutality. In America’s overtly racist past, the killers of black Americans were less likely to be caught than the killers of whites because black lives were valued less. These days, inadequate resources, recruitment and training of inner-city police officers are bigger problems. Yet the outcome is the same. In the 1930s, Mississippi solved 30% of black murders; in the early 1990s, Los Angeles County, then in the grip of a violent crack-cocaine epidemic, solved 36%; in 2015 the police in Baltimore solved 30.5% of murders, most of which involved blacks."

Link

Great article, btw. I recommend reading the whole thing. and Ghettoside, by Jill Leovy, is a great book.

"Leovy understands that the second terrible burden is that we — and especially the police — have grievously failed to make the community safe. We are not protecting the young men and their families. The violence has raged for generations, and we have not stopped it. The cases get short shrift — in L.A., homicide detectives couldn’t get notebooks or computers at the same time that administrative staffers at headquarters got take-home cars. Black victims too often are diminished or worse; Leovy reports something I first saw nearly 30 years ago — LAPD officers writing “NHI” on homicide incident reports: No Humans Involved. Terrified witnesses stop cooperating, and investigators, carrying huge caseloads, give up. Prosecutors eyeing their conviction rates turn away from cases in which all of those testifying have records and credibility problems."

What you think about dangerous inner-city neighborhoods is wrong

(Emphasis mine)

I was specifically asking about Baltimore.  Same question again.  Do you have any evidence that Baltimore City's criminal justice system has been underfunded?

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23 hours ago, mrdeltoid said:

America is under 300 years old. I was discouraged about our race problem till I read this article. We've came a long way from slavery in, relatively speaking a short period of time compared to Europe.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiok8biqcXbAhVCiFkKHU-aBFkQFghBMAM&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.enar-eu.org%2FBlack-people-in-Europe-report-widespread-racism-in-anti-immigration-context&usg=AOvVaw1UJ0HgrYIyYTYOCz6K2awv

Black people are particularly exposed to police violence as well as racist violence and abuse from other members of the public. In Sweden, 17% of hate crimes targeted Black people in 2014 (1,075 in total). There is a lack of trust between Black communities and the police which arises from various methods used by the police such as racial profiling and lack of full investigation of racially motivated crimes. Some law enforcement personnel display clearly racist behaviours and the police forces in some Member States are described as institutionally racist.

Black pupils experience racism in schools such as racist bullying and biased teaching materials and practice. Teachers’ influence and racial discrimination of Black pupils can have significant implications on educational attainment and life chances of Black people. In the Netherlands, pupils of African descent were under-evaluated by teachers, despite higher scores in the test to determine the level of education pupils may proceed to.

You are describing America. What you mean overcome?

Just because you don’t openly discriminate against blacks don’t mean that others don’t.

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11 minutes ago, EgyptKang said:

You are describing America. What you mean overcome?

Just because you don’t openly discriminate against blacks don’t mean that others don’t.

Aww, are your coworkers still stealing your lunch from the office fridge? 

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17 hours ago, hst2 said:

The vast majority of those who are locked up never had a trial.

Very "confusing".

Most cases are settled out of court. 

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12 hours ago, EgyptKang said:

You are describing America. What you mean overcome?

Just because you don’t openly discriminate against blacks don’t mean that others don’t.

I was pointing out the positive about our country, as in coming from slave state to the 1964 civil rights act, is remarkable, considering other countries are much older. I think the older countries that still have problems with racism is instructive. I would say there will always be racists. Nobody can change that. What we can stop is institutional racism, such as profiling. I don’t believe we will ever be free of prejudice against any number of people’s. We need to stop using it as a political bludgeon. No?

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20 hours ago, Guido2 said:

Still an F- 

You absolutely refuse to say 'yes I mis-spoke...you are correct'. 

I doubt you ever have on these forums. 

Not when it comes to this topic. hst2 is ironclad and immovable to any other position regarding this matter and seemingly incapable of admitting that his answer is not always the best solution. 

When not on the subject of race I have cheered his responses. His eloquence and logic are often impeccable when off the subject of race. Bring up race or any inroad that leads to race, and it's as if a switch is thrown and all he can see is how victimized black people have been since the dawn of history, and how white people are the sole victimizers and oppressors, and whites are the only reason behind everything that ails the black community. The cult of victimization has done more harm to black folks than anything blacks experience as a group, today, in America. Because it has made blacks dependent and needy. (Not all blacks, not even most, I'm speaking generally)

We're just too close historically to see it. And the few in the community who do see it are unwilling to admit it. 

That's all I will say about it. I'm back to my Sunday programs and television. 

No offense meant to hst2 or anyone.

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