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Pickle20

Baltimore is mired in violent crime. Could part of the solution be found in reclaimed wood?

24 posts in this topic

16 minutes ago, Pickle20 said:

Which is why projects like the one I posted in the OP are so important.

There are many such projects and educational opportunities already and have been for some time

Yet we still have those 70%ers.

Why is that

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6 minutes ago, Guido2 said:

There are many such projects and educational opportunities already and have been for some time

Yet we still have those 70%ers.

Why is that

Probably because getting a legit job after doing a bid is hard.

Or they have no intention of going straight after a sentence.

But the point is, more opportunities for ex-cons is a good thing, do you agree?

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7 minutes ago, Pickle20 said:

Probably because getting a legit job after doing a bid is hard.

Or they have no intention of going straight after a sentence.

But the point is, more opportunities for ex-cons is a good thing, do you agree?

I absolutely agree. They should be given chances even a couple of chances. But at some point you have to put them out to 'pasture'. 

I think your second line is the biggest issue. I would imagine it is very very hard for someone that was pushing dope maybe making hundreds if not thousands of dollars for a few hours work ..if they wanted....when they wanted. To be suddenly punching a clock for min. wage. 

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7 minutes ago, Guido2 said:

There are many such projects and educational opportunities already and have been for some time

Yet we still have those 70%ers.

Why is that

Why?  Because it's difficult to rehabilitate someone who was never properly habilitated in the many cases when it would have made a difference. 

Why work for your $$$$ when it's easier to jack someone up on a "take as you go" basis? 

I can almost envision turf battles over wood.  Violent criminals don't think like the rest of us do, but give this effort a try and see what happens.  Might be something positive for a change. 

I have nothing but admiration for any ex-felon who does their time and is willing to work a regular job, no matter how menial to start, instead of slipping back into old habits.

There's no shame in doing honest work in any line of work. 

 

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I take issue with the 70% number. The state says that the recidivism rate is under 50%. I have no idea where this 70% figure came from or what it is measuring (reconviction? rearrest? reincarceration? return to prison on a parole retake warrant?).

On the other hand, projects like these are effective. Most research shows that many, perhaps most, criminals "slow down" as the pass 25 or so. Providing education (the average state prison inmate reads on a 5th or 6 grade level, does math on a lower level), job training, and connection to needed resources upon release is also needed. DOC does some work in this area, but a lot more is needed. Hope that this project can be effective, and that others like it can be started.

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26 minutes ago, XJLR said:

I take issue with the 70% number. The state says that the recidivism rate is under 50%. I have no idea where this 70% figure came from or what it is measuring (reconviction? rearrest? reincarceration? return to prison on a parole retake warrant?).

On the other hand, projects like these are effective. Most research shows that many, perhaps most, criminals "slow down" as the pass 25 or so. Providing education (the average state prison inmate reads on a 5th or 6 grade level, does math on a lower level), job training, and connection to needed resources upon release is also needed. DOC does some work in this area, but a lot more is needed. Hope that this project can be effective, and that others like it can be started.

Well then go argue with USAtoday. 

BTW you do realize that the blue quote is also a link....it may provide additional information on how they got that number. 

Still even at 50% that's a LOT. 

Are you going to buy a car regardless of the price ...that there is a 50/50 chance the wheels will fall off? Regardless of the age of the car?

So XJLR... question.....with those type of stats ….when do you think it is time to give up on a career criminal? And just lock him/her away for the safety of the law abiding?

 

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9 hours ago, Pickle20 said:

Probably because getting a legit job after doing a bid is hard.

Or they have no intention of going straight after a sentence.

But the point is, more opportunities for ex-cons is a good thing, do you agree?

 

Worth a read...

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Quote

About 14.5 million tons of wood in America's landfills every year come from urban areas, according to the most recent Forest Service estimates. That's more than the amount of timber harvested from national forests each year.

Wow!

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18 hours ago, Pickle20 said:

Probably because getting a legit job after doing a bid is hard.

Or they have no intention of going straight after a sentence.

But the point is, more opportunities for ex-cons is a good thing, do you agree?

Agree 

Agree

Agree.

As it now, the deck is stacked against those who want to pursue a life other than a life of crime. People have to eat and have families to take care if. When money cannot be obtained legally to do those things, guess what?

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11 hours ago, Baltimatt said:

Wow!

It is pretty amazing isn't it. Ever go to a place like Second Chance who's motto is 'Retrain, Reclaim, Renew.

The things they recycle and sell from torn down buildings is something to behold. Having an 80 year old home places like that are my 'go to' place for replacement parts that just aren't available at Lowe's. 

The salvaged bricks seem to also be a very 'hot' product and they seem to have problems keeping the vintage bricks in stock. 

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3 hours ago, prodigalson1 said:

Agree 

Agree

Agree.

As it now, the deck is stacked against those who want to pursue a life other than a life of crime. People have to eat and have families to take care if. When money cannot be obtained legally to do those things, guess what?

Well a good start might be NOT TO START A FAMILY (sorry reproduce) IN THE FIRST PLACE. 

duh

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13 minutes ago, Guido2 said:

Well a good start might be NOT TO START A FAMILY (sorry reproduce) IN THE FIRST PLACE. 

duh

Easier said than done.

A really good start would be to not lock people up over BS. Like, things they do to themselves, for example.

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Just now, prodigalson1 said:

Easier said than done.

A really good start would be to not lock people up over BS. Like, things they do to themselves, for example.

Ok....one time is a mistake.....4 times is blatant stupidity....especially when daddy(s) are no where to be found. 

I am all for legalizing drugs ….as long as they are under medical supervision and care. Hopefully that way they may get the treatment they need. Several Europian countieds have legal shooting galleries and provide free drug and needles. Seems that is a hell of a lot cheaper than catch and release and maybe treatment.

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1 hour ago, Guido2 said:

Ok....one time is a mistake.....4 times is blatant stupidity....especially when daddy(s) are no where to be found. 

I am all for legalizing drugs ….as long as they are under medical supervision and care. Hopefully that way they may get the treatment they need. Several Europian countieds have legal shooting galleries and provide free drug and needles. Seems that is a hell of a lot cheaper than catch and release and maybe treatment.

Agree 

And 

Agree. 

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2 minutes ago, prodigalson1 said:

Agree 

And 

Agree. 

:)

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On 6/11/2018 at 2:32 PM, Guido2 said:

Well then go argue with USAtoday. 

BTW you do realize that the blue quote is also a link....it may provide additional information on how they got that number. 

Still even at 50% that's a LOT. 

Are you going to buy a car regardless of the price ...that there is a 50/50 chance the wheels will fall off? Regardless of the age of the car?

So XJLR... question.....with those type of stats ….when do you think it is time to give up on a career criminal? And just lock him/her away for the safety of the law abiding?

 

If you had read the article, you'd see that the state estimates recidivism at unter 50%. The 70% is an estimate from somewhere. However, since those arrested in the city end up in a state-run jail, those numbers would fall under the state numbers -- 50% or so, not the 70% "estimate." Again, what are you measuring and for how long a period of time?

To answer your question, it depends of what you mean by "career criminal." Violent offender? Yes, lock them up for as long as possible, but at the same time provide rehabilitative programming, since they will probably reenter society some day. Non-violent offenders? Try to divert to keep prison beds for violent offenders and, again, provide rehabilitative progrmming. Stats show that most offenders "burn out" as they age. Not all, but most. And there is programming that can work.

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On 6/12/2018 at 9:33 AM, Guido2 said:

It is pretty amazing isn't it. Ever go to a place like Second Chance who's motto is 'Retrain, Reclaim, Renew.

The things they recycle and sell from torn down buildings is something to behold. Having an 80 year old home places like that are my 'go to' place for replacement parts that just aren't available at Lowe's. 

The salvaged bricks seem to also be a very 'hot' product and they seem to have problems keeping the vintage bricks in stock. 

If this is the place that I think it is -- at least used to be down near Ravens Stadium, may have moved because of the casino -- I've spoken with them before. I believe they have a number of ex-cons employed there.

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17 minutes ago, XJLR said:

If you had read the article, you'd see that the state estimates recidivism at unter 50%. The 70% is an estimate from somewhere. However, since those arrested in the city end up in a state-run jail, those numbers would fall under the state numbers -- 50% or so, not the 70% "estimate." Again, what are you measuring and for how long a period of time?

To answer your question, it depends of what you mean by "career criminal." Violent offender? Yes, lock them up for as long as possible, but at the same time provide rehabilitative programming, since they will probably reenter society some day. Non-violent offenders? Try to divert to keep prison beds for violent offenders and, again, provide rehabilitative progrmming. Stats show that most offenders "burn out" as they age. Not all, but most. And there is programming that can work.

Hmmm  that would be interesting. No longer assign years but a re-occurring evaluation every few years. Call it the feeble clause....when a bad guy is walking in with a walker or wearing depends....he can be released. 

That might work. 😉

I think you have to parse down 'career criminal' a lot more. 

Is it violent crimes...definitely...is it a felon in possession for the X time...definitely. Is it someone that breaks and enters? Or is it someone that can't shake drugs? There is a differentiation ...at least to me...that someone that earns a 'living' robbing people vs someone that is messed up on drugs. 

Hope you see my attempt at separation and categorizing.  

Edited by Guido2

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Three good things:

- Salvaging prime old wood.

- Tearing down derelict houses. (my son and his family have a condemned city-owned house on his block... grrrrr.)

- Letting conscientious former criminals acquire an employment track record, which could lead to a private-sector job.

I can't think of a down-side.

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On 6/11/2018 at 2:00 PM, XJLR said:

I take issue with the 70% number. The state says that the recidivism rate is under 50%. I have no idea where this 70% figure came from or what it is measuring (reconviction? rearrest? reincarceration? return to prison on a parole retake warrant?).

On the other hand, projects like these are effective. Most research shows that many, perhaps most, criminals "slow down" as the pass 25 or so. Providing education (the average state prison inmate reads on a 5th or 6 grade level, does math on a lower level), job training, and connection to needed resources upon release is also needed. DOC does some work in this area, but a lot more is needed. Hope that this project can be effective, and that others like it can be started.

Usually there are people who just love to throw out false stats about black people. It makes them feel superior. They also quote false stats from racists and from Fox news

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