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Supreme Court, in 5–4 Decision, Allows States to Purge Voters for Their Failure to Vote

151 posts in this topic

3 minutes ago, bmore_ken said:

So you would willingly  take s plea for something you did not do? Better you than me. 

I realize this may be hard to understand, so I will use my Mister Rogers voice: “The real world is different from what we see on make-believe courtroom TV dramas.”

If i were charged with a crime, I would listen to the advice of my lawyer and accept that there may be situations where a plea deal may be the best choice when one is between a rock and a hard place.

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18 hours ago, bmore_ken said:

You're not losing your right. You can just re register when you decide you feel like actually voting.

stop making sense

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Say, which way did Gorsuch vote?

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2 hours ago, bmore_ken said:

There’s no de facto. If you allow pressure to force you to accept a plea, that’s on you. 

https://www.innocenceproject.org/causes/false-confessions-admissions/

"

Why do innocent people confess?

The reasons that people falsely confess are complex and varied, but what they tend to have in common is a belief that complying with the police by saying that they committed the crime in question will be more beneficial than continuing to maintain their innocence.

The factors that can contribute to a false confession during a police interrogation include:

  • duress
  • coercion
  • intoxication
  • diminished capacity
  • mental impairment
  • ignorance of the law
  • fear of violence
  • the actual infliction of harm
  • the threat of a harsh sentence
  • misunderstanding the situation"

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5 minutes ago, Saticon3 said:

Say, which way did Gorsuch vote?

He voted for judical activism.  Against years of precedent. 

Don't you just hate that?

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Posted (edited)

47 minutes ago, ms maggie said:

Who you are and where you live can be proved by a utility bill but that's not the law in many states who require a specific state issued ID.

The whole system is archaic.  Vote by mail/email makes sense. And I'm betting it's lots less costly and more accurate. 

I have no problem with someone providing some form of personal 'who I am' ID and this is where I live ID. Be it a Costco card, a rental receipt or what ever. 

But being able to walk in and simply say ' Hi, my name is Billy Bob Joe Smith and live on 123 What the hell avenue' with no verification is a problem for me. 

As I said...national elections...:rolleyes: so what....local.....:mad:

BTW I did think that online voting was a good idea....but since the Russian thingy ….ahhhh nope. 

Edited by Guido2

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19 minutes ago, Saticon3 said:

stop making sense

Yup....

but common sense is out the window now a days when there is an ax to grind and an agenda to be met. 🤡

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I've been skeptical of the effect this will have on elections, but on the flip side of the coin can anyone articulate a good reason to do this? Other than political motivations, of course? Because I can't think of a good reason to remove anyone from a voter roll. 

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26 minutes ago, Saticon3 said:

stop making sense

It only makes sense if your goal is to disenfranchise thousands of eligible voters.  Because, hey, guess what? That's what it does.

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6 minutes ago, Dystopia said:

I've been skeptical of the effect this will have on elections, but on the flip side of the coin can anyone articulate a good reason to do this? Other than political motivations, of course? Because I can't think of a good reason to remove anyone from a voter roll. 

Its just common sense, apparently.

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36 minutes ago, Saticon3 said:

https://www.innocenceproject.org/causes/false-confessions-admissions/

"

Why do innocent people confess?

The reasons that people falsely confess are complex and varied, but what they tend to have in common is a belief that complying with the police by saying that they committed the crime in question will be more beneficial than continuing to maintain their innocence.

The factors that can contribute to a false confession during a police interrogation include:

  • duress
  • coercion
  • intoxication
  • diminished capacity
  • mental impairment
  • ignorance of the law
  • fear of violence
  • the actual infliction of harm
  • the threat of a harsh sentence
  • misunderstanding the situation"

Still on you. 

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22 minutes ago, Dystopia said:

I've been skeptical of the effect this will have on elections, but on the flip side of the coin can anyone articulate a good reason to do this? Other than political motivations, of course? Because I can't think of a good reason to remove anyone from a voter roll. 

I guess the only answer I can come up with is this.

Do you periodically do spring cleaning? Do you go up in the attic and say why the heck am I hanging onto this? And you throw it out. 

Now, a month from now you realize the thing you threw out ...well you could use it now. So what do you do. You buy another one. 

So that said. Here in MD lets say they purged your voter record. You don't exist. Well here in MD the are heavily advertising that 'HEY, YOU CAN REGISTER RIGHT HERE BEFORE YOU VOTE'.

So tell me where is the problem. 

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8 minutes ago, bmore_ken said:

Still on you. 

So ken....maybe I am reaching here. 

But are you saying ...to the bad guy (alleged).

Why are you here in the first place?

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6 minutes ago, Guido2 said:

So ken....maybe I am reaching here. 

But are you saying ...to the bad guy (alleged).

Why are you here in the first place?

I don’t speak Guidoese, I have no idea what that says 

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Just now, bmore_ken said:

I don’t speak Guidoese, I have no idea what that says 

Yes I guess it was cryptic.

What I am trying to discern. is this.....from the list of 'reasons' ….after you go past that....are you saying.

Taking all the list into consideration...when it comes down to it.....the question 'Why is the bad guy here in the first place' that prompts the need for a plea bargain at all?

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26 minutes ago, Guido2 said:

Yes I guess it was cryptic.

What I am trying to discern. is this.....from the list of 'reasons' ….after you go past that....are you saying.

Taking all the list into consideration...when it comes down to it.....the question 'Why is the bad guy here in the first place' that prompts the need for a plea bargain at all?

I can’t speak for the bad guy, just for myself. I wouldn’t volunteer to go to jail for something I know I did not do. If I knew I did what I was accused of that would be a different story. 

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1 hour ago, ms maggie said:

My favorite story about this is how when the PA lD law was challenged in court, the judge asked the state to present evidence of voter fraud that this ID law would address.  The state admitted in open court that they had sought to find some evidence and came up empty.  Very emperor new clothes. 

BYNGO!  And this is it in a nutshell.   This is a solution in search of a problem.  Now, IMHO the only reason these states are working so diligently to provide a solution to a problem that doesn't exist is if their true intentions are nefarious.

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6 minutes ago, bmore_ken said:

I can’t speak for the bad guy, just for myself. I wouldn’t volunteer to go to jail for something I know I did not do. If I knew I did what I was accused of that would be a different story. 

OK so here's the scenario a lot of these folks face.  You're locked up an charged with whatever, and you're toast.  Whether you actually did it or not they are determined to make you responsible so no matter what you're doing time.  Option A is to take a plea deal,  and Option B is go to trial.  In either case you are going to lose, except Option A carries 2 years and Option B carries 15.  Are you seriously saying in that no-win situation you are going to chose the clearly much much worse of the 2 options?

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52 minutes ago, Guido2 said:

I guess the only answer I can come up with is this.

Do you periodically do spring cleaning? Do you go up in the attic and say why the heck am I hanging onto this? And you throw it out. 

Now, a month from now you realize the thing you threw out ...well you could use it now. So what do you do. You buy another one. 

So that said. Here in MD lets say they purged your voter record. You don't exist. Well here in MD the are heavily advertising that 'HEY, YOU CAN REGISTER RIGHT HERE BEFORE YOU VOTE'.

So tell me where is the problem. 

I already stated the problem which is the political motivations behind it. 

I don't think your analogy really applies very well here. 

I maintain, however, that this won't have much of an effect. 

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47 minutes ago, bmore_ken said:

I can’t speak for the bad guy, just for myself. I wouldn’t volunteer to go to jail for something I know I did not do. If I knew I did what I was accused of that would be a different story. 

Many of the people this happens too are poor. They cannot afford a lawyer and they cannot afford bail. Because of the laws that have been passed over the years such as "truth in sentencing", "three strikes you're out" and "mandatory minimums", much of the judicial authority has been moved from the judge to the prosecutor. So when a poor person faces criminal charges, the prosecutor, who knows that being "tough on crime" is appealing to his voters, threatens the defendant with as many felony charges as he or she can. The defendant is free to rely on his overworked public defender who has little time to work on his case, and ask for a trial.  Lacking the funds to post bail, the prosecutor can tell the defendant that he or she may wait in jail for a year or more for his trial to come to pass, or he can plead guilty to a less crime and just do the time and be done. With the deck stacked so heavily against the defendant, he is likely to take the plea bargain.

The film The 13th describes all this very well. It features a young man who, as you say you would do, demanded his right to a trial. He languished in prison for years waiting his trial and eventually committed suicide.

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34 minutes ago, hst2 said:

Many of the people this happens too are poor. They cannot afford a lawyer and they cannot afford bail. Because of the laws that have been passed over the years such as "truth in sentencing", "three strikes you're out" and "mandatory minimums", much of the judicial authority has been moved from the judge to the prosecutor. So when a poor person faces criminal charges, the prosecutor, who knows that being "tough on crime" is appealing to his voters, threatens the defendant with as many felony charges as he or she can. The defendant is free to rely on his overworked public defender who has little time to work on his case, and ask for a trial.  Lacking the funds to post bail, the prosecutor can tell the defendant that he or she may wait in jail for a year or more for his trial to come to pass, or he can plead guilty to a less crime and just do the time and be done. With the deck stacked so heavily against the defendant, he is likely to take the plea bargain.

The film The 13th describes all this very well. It features a young man who, as you say you would do, demanded his right to a trial. He languished in prison for years waiting his trial and eventually committed suicide.

You know what HST, I am getting really sick and tired of hearing about poor folk....aka...blacks. 

I had a real enlightening, heart to heart talk ….purely by accident conversation,  just last night with my wife about our lives when growing up. I was shocked by my wife's information. 

In a nutshell, after my father in law got out of the Navy after fighting in the Pacific in WW2 he came home. And to no job. He was apprenticed in is brothers auto business and simply stated got screwed. But he was in love and got married   and lived in essentially was a shack in Mass. that another relative let them live in for free. And my wife's parents slowly and surely built a life. And eventually had a child that would become my wonderful wife. And that was it. A child.

Nowever, there were no. no run ins with the law....no not paying bills....no government subsidieze….no hand outs. 

THEY AND SHE....worked there butts off to pay for college... no loans or  grants....cash on the barrel head. 

Though not as ruff as my wife's life...I and my Father and Mother did the same thing to get me where I am today. Again with NO HELP. 

So hst what are the three differencing factors between your poor (aka blacks) and my wife's and my success. One, family a real family. Two, you obey the law, you follow the law....no excuses. Three, this is our 'war' to win....not anybody else's...no excuses ….not someone else's fault...what happens to you is on YOU.

You and others are unfortunate because you likely never experienced what my wife and I and most importantly OUR FAMILIES experienced and embraced. 

You..it seems has experienced an excuse factory.....a perpetual machine labeled....NOT MY FAULT

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33 minutes ago, Guido2 said:

You know what HST, I am getting really sick and tired of hearing about poor folk....aka...blacks. 

I had a real enlightening, heart to heart talk ….purely by accident conversation,  just last night with my wife about our lives when growing up. I was shocked by my wife's information. 

In a nutshell, after my father in law got out of the Navy after fighting in the Pacific in WW2 he came home. And to no job. He was apprenticed in is brothers auto business and simply stated got screwed. But he was in love and got married   and lived in essentially was a shack in Mass. that another relative let them live in for free. And my wife's parents slowly and surely built a life. And eventually had a child that would become my wonderful wife. And that was it. A child.

Nowever, there were no. no run ins with the law....no not paying bills....no government subsidieze….no hand outs. 

THEY AND SHE....worked there butts off to pay for college... no loans or  grants....cash on the barrel head. 

Though not as ruff as my wife's life...I and my Father and Mother did the same thing to get me where I am today. Again with NO HELP. 

So hst what are the three differencing factors between your poor (aka blacks) and my wife's and my success. One, family a real family. Two, you obey the law, you follow the law....no excuses. Three, this is our 'war' to win....not anybody else's...no excuses ….not someone else's fault...what happens to you is on YOU.

You and others are unfortunate because you likely never experienced what my wife and I and most importantly OUR FAMILIES experienced and embraced. 

You..it seems has experienced an excuse factory.....a perpetual machine labeled....NOT MY FAULT

I think you're letting your disdain for hst2 color your posting here.  A whole lot of assumptions made about people in this post.  And please, enough with the port (aka blacks) crap.  You really can be quite nasty as a poster sometimes with this stuff.

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, banner1124 said:

I think you're letting your disdain for hst2 color your posting here.  A whole lot of assumptions made about people in this post.  And please, enough with the port (aka blacks) crap.  You really can be quite nasty as a poster sometimes with this stuff.

Noted

Addendum: I'm am nasty? Tell you what, contact HST and tell him to temper his cloaked hatred for whites.

Then I will calm down.

He posts here....I respond here. EOS. He uses fancy words, boring rhetoric...history lessons to insult everyone that happens to be white and doesn't share his obsession with white guilt. 

So get on his case....not mine. 

Edited by Guido2

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3 hours ago, banner1124 said:

I think you're letting your disdain for hst2 color your posting here.  A whole lot of assumptions made about people in this post.  And please, enough with the port (aka blacks) crap.  You really can be quite nasty as a poster sometimes with this stuff.

hst is super partisan but surprisingly respectful in his conversations. At least from what I've seen. Unlike many of the Trump-friendly posters on here. 

I try to keep it respectful. Some posters make that very difficult however.

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On 6/12/2018 at 5:51 PM, hst2 said:

A tie in Virginia was recently settled by a coin toss.

Trump was elected by about the same number of people that it takes to fill Camden Yards.

An “hst” who couldn’t pass a sixth grade civics test on how U.S. Presidents are elected. Truly pathetic. 

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