Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

thefitzman1

Arbitration with Bedard, Patterson, Roberts

56 posts in this topic

http://baltimore.orioles.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070116&content_id=1780514&vkey=news_bal&fext=.jsp&c_id=bal

 

Apparently, with all the ridiculous dollars being thrown at top-level pitchers, the Orioles only think Erik Bedard is worth $2.7 million a year. Personally, I think the $4 million he asked for is perfectly reasonable (cheap, even). Especially considering the club offered that much to Patterson.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
http://baltimore.orioles.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070116&content_id=1780514&vkey=news_bal&fext=.jsp&c_id=bal

 

Apparently, with all the ridiculous dollars being thrown at top-level pitchers, the Orioles only think Erik Bedard is worth $2.7 million a year. Personally, I think the $4 million he asked for is perfectly reasonable (cheap, even). Especially considering the club offered that much to Patterson.

 

I too think the 2.7 million is low for his mlb service time.

 

Comparing to Patterson isn't fair due to the difference in their service time.

 

I think the offers being made to Patterson and Roberts are reasonable.

 

Bedard will wind up getting 3.5/3.6 mil for this season

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They will probably come to an agreement,beforehand,with Roberts and Patterson,as their numbers aren't a million miles apart.

 

Bedard could go down to the wire ;the Orioles' offer seems a tad parsimonious to me.

 

If it goes to arbitration,don't the Orioles have a 'successful' record ?

 

It would be best if they could reach an agreement,much nearer Bedard's figure,as there is little value in alienating your best pitcher for the sake of a million dollars...

 

Pax Vobiscum

Saint-Just X

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
They will probably come to an agreement,beforehand,with Roberts and Patterson,as their numbers aren't a million miles apart.

 

Bedard could go down to the wire ;the Orioles' offer seems a tad parsimonious to me.

 

If it goes to arbitration,don't the Orioles have a 'successful' record ?

 

It would be best if they could reach an agreement,much nearer Bedard's figure,as there is little value in alienating your best pitcher for the sake of a million dollars...

 

Pax Vobiscum

Saint-Just X

 

 

 

I'll be the "Greek" lowballs everyone of these guys for no good reason.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
They will probably come to an agreement,beforehand,with Roberts and Patterson,as their numbers aren't a million miles apart.

 

Bedard could go down to the wire ;the Orioles' offer seems a tad parsimonious to me.

 

If it goes to arbitration,don't the Orioles have a 'successful' record ?

 

It would be best if they could reach an agreement,much nearer Bedard's figure,as there is little value in alienating your best pitcher for the sake of a million dollars...

 

Pax Vobiscum

Saint-Just X

 

I agree with you. They most likely will settle with Patterson and Roberts. Bedard could be different (as cheap as the O's tend to be).

 

Here's the thing - these are three of your key players. Why take the risk of hacking them off? If it's true what I read here about Bedard not being thrilled with Baltimore as it is, I don't want to go out of my way to alienate him and ruin any chance of him signing long-term. If I am the Orioles, I come close to matching all of these players figures, get them signed, and turn everyone's attention toward Spring Training.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'll be the "Greek" lowballs everyone of these guys for no good reason.

 

What does his ethnicity have to do with his ownership of the Orioles? You are over the line sir.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Apparently, with all the ridiculous dollars being thrown at top-level pitchers, the Orioles only think Erik Bedard is worth $2.7 million a year. Personally, I think the $4 million he asked for is perfectly reasonable (cheap, even). Especially considering the club offered that much to Patterson.
I don't think it's fair to compare the arbitration offers between two players and qualify one as "cheap" because it's less than another.

 

WRT Bedrad specifically, he's a fortunate man. Thrift screwed up his service time by a whole year because of two-thirds of an inning in 2002 allowed him to spend all of 2003 on the 60-day DL recovering from TJ surgery earning service time while he didn't pitch. Also, much to my disagreement, the Orioles allowed Bedard to rehab for half a season in 2004 on the ML club instead of the minors where he belonged trying to get his fastball off of 89mph.

 

Bedard shouldn't have qualified as a Super-2 last year and he got 1.4M instead of having a 450k salary assigned. Had his service time been well managed, he'd have his salary assigned this year too....as it is, he'll get 3.5+M.

 

I don't begrudge Bedard anything, it's not really his fault.....but Erik Bedard has been given more than reasonable opportunity with the Orioles.

 

I don't have any concern with the arbitration figures of either side, everyone is just doing their job wrt to quality pitcher with 3 years and 171 days service time (172 days = full year). What would be excellent is for both sides to realize the collective opportunity and work out a 5 yr, 50million contract. Give him more than his arbitration figure this season (maybe you have to do some of it as a 'signing bonus' not to artificially inflate 3rd yr players' salary) .

 

Go O's.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, if the Orioles have done one thing well over the course of the last 6-7 years, it's that they DO settle reasonable deals with their arbitration cases and on only the rare occasion have they gone to the arbiter.

 

I think avoiding the arbitration case (before the arbiter) is a good policy for both the player and the team and anyone can make up whatever crap they want about it, but the Orioles have generally done a good job with it.

 

Go O's.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What does his ethnicity have to do with his ownership of the Orioles? You are over the line sir.

 

 

It's his nickname and btw I do stand by saying that Angelos will "low ball" these guys at the table.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
...and btw I do stand by saying that Angelos will "low ball" these guys at the table.
Well factual history would say you're wrong. Go O's.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What does his ethnicity have to do with his ownership of the Orioles? You are over the line sir.

 

he didn't say, "because he's Greek he'll lowball all 3 guys"

 

so I'm not sure why you're offended by that comment

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Also, if the Orioles have done one thing well...

 

Go O's.

 

A mightly big if.

 

Back on topic, I think they should they should use Bedard's request as the baseline for a long term contract. To be honest, it's less then I thought it would be. ($4 million in 2007, $5.5 million in 08, $9.5 million in 09 and two $12 million dollar options with a $2 million buyout for each option. So that is $43 million over 5 years...that could be a real bargain. At worst it's $21 million over 3 years).

 

Re: patterson, I hope he's not a long term part of our future, at least not a part of a team that has so many other weaknesses (LF/1B/DH).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
A mightly big if.
Are you saying the Orioles haven't done a good job getting their arbitration cases solved before the case being heard, because the fact is they have.

 

Anyone want to bet none of these guys actually go to arbitration?

 

Go O's.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Other than Bedard, the offers look reasonable. Bedard will clos the gap with the O's priro to th arbitration date. He is woth $4m per season.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I were Bedard and saw where they offered Patterson more then me I'd remember that when I become a free agent. They should be offering Bedard top shelf money to keep him here for 4 to 5 years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
WRT Bedrad specifically, he's a fortunate man. Thrift screwed up his service time by a whole year because of two-thirds of an inning in 2002 allowed him to spend all of 2003 on the 60-day DL recovering from TJ surgery earning service time while he didn't pitch.

 

I don't begrudge Bedard anything, it's not really his fault.....but Erik Bedard has been given more than reasonable opportunity with the Orioles.

 

On the last point I say so what.

He's a talanted pitcher, that was obvious from his minor league days. I don't have the stats in front of me but I'm quite sure I am correct that in 2004 and 2005 he had some of the worst run support in the majors. I also recall during the 2004 season he had a big problem with many of his starts being either rained out or he was pitching in the rain. I remember Palmer talking about this and how difficult it is.

 

I read somewhere that Bedard is not a free agent until after 2009. Do you have something you can post that says otherwise? I don't see how 2/3 of an inning can cost a full season. I would think it is the same as being a September call-up.

 

Also, Bedard got hurt at Bowie so I don't think that has anything to do with him accumulating service time toward free agency.

 

The Orioles are playing cheap with all players involved. In the case of Roberts as well as Bedard both should have long-term contracts in hand. I understand Bedard's situation but I will at least agree with poster dembo that it is not a good idea to piss him off.

 

Especially seeing either Bedard or Roberts in arbitration will be another low point and a real black eye in this clubs recent history.

I hope they can avoid this humilating process with all 3 players.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In one thing the O’s have been good these last years is avoiding arbitration, I have good hopes they will do it this year too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On the last point I say so what.

He's a talanted pitcher, that was obvious from his minor league days. I don't have the stats in front of me but I'm quite sure I am correct that in 2004 and 2005 he had some of the worst run support in the majors. I also recall during the 2004 season he had a big problem with many of his starts being either rained out or he was pitching in the rain. I remember Palmer talking about this and how difficult it is.

I'm not sure what this has to do with anything. He should have been rehabbing in the minors for the 60-90 days of 2004. The Orioles approach was what kept Bedard getting jerked around. If you recall they messed up the recall time, he was sitting on the bench, there were rainouts, etc. He should have been at AA as the ONLY pitcher that stayed on normal work, because they should have been trying to rehab their best pitching prospect from TJ surgery, not watching him throw 90 pitches through 4 innings in the majors.
I read somewhere that Bedard is not a free agent until after 2009. Do you have something you can post that says otherwise? I don't see how 2/3 of an inning can cost a full season. I would think it is the same as being a September call-up.
He not a FA until after the 2009 season. Who said differently? He should only have 2.5 years of service time today, not 3.99 years.
Also, Bedard got hurt at Bowie so I don't think that has anything to do with him accumulating service time toward free agency.
He shouldn't have been on the 40-man roster when he got hurt at Bowie in 2002. The only reason he was on the 40-man was because Thrift brought him up for 2/3 of an inning in 2002. Had he not been required to be put on the 60-day disabled list in 2002, I don't think he would have recieved ML-service time for all of 2003. I'd actually have to verify that rule, but the fact is he recieved service time on the 60-day disabled list in 2003.
The Orioles are playing cheap with all players involved. In the case of Roberts as well as Bedard both should have long-term contracts in hand. I understand Bedard's situation but I will at least agree with poster dembo that it is not a good idea to piss him off.

How are they playing cheap? You believe they should have already recieved long-term contracts....what if Bedard and Roberts don't want to sign long-term contracts? What if the Orioles offered them (I have no idea) 5/35 and 5/50 deals and Roberts wants 5/55 and Bedard 6/90. Who knows.....but to lay all of the blame at the foot of the club and expect no accountability from the player is sort of silly seeing as we don't know ANY details of what each side wants. FWIW, the Orioles could be completely wrong, but devoid of information, it's difficult at best to make an assessment either way, but you've decided the club is cheap.
Especially seeing either Bedard or Roberts in arbitration will be another low point and a real black eye in this clubs recent history.

I hope they can avoid this humilating process with all 3 players.

Yes, because the Orioles have such a history of driving the players to the end of arbitration.

 

Go O's.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I agree with you. They most likely will settle with Patterson and Roberts. Bedard could be different (as cheap as the O's tend to be).

 

Here's the thing - these are three of your key players. Why take the risk of hacking them off? If it's true what I read here about Bedard not being thrilled with Baltimore as it is, I don't want to go out of my way to alienate him and ruin any chance of him signing long-term. If I am the Orioles, I come close to matching all of these players figures, get them signed, and turn everyone's attention toward Spring Training.

 

I will take a different spin on what you said.....if Bedard is not happy with the O's as it is sign him cheap and then look to trade him......he certainly could bring in big dividends. Though I'm not saying we should look him up long term this is definetely and option considering the good year he had last year. This is also assuming we would look to replace his spot in the rotation as well.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In looking at the list of arb-eligible players on the various clubs, I don't see ANY with even 2 players remaining who are the caliber of Roberts or Bedard, and Patterson isn't exactly a no-talent. The Marlins just signed Willis to a nice deal, so I wonder why the O's can't get theirs done PROMPTLY so as not to leave their key players dangling in the wind. ?? If I was a player, it would be nice to know I was wanted, rather than being dinked around just because the Owner CAN. I don't understand this mentality when it comes to building a franchise that players will WANT to come to, that will ATTRACT free agents, or is it just a case of cluelessness as to why our owner consistently wins polls as the WORST owner in all of professional sports? I just don't get it. :confused:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What was Trace saying again about holding the Ravens to the same standard as the O's? Once again we see why there is no comparison between the two orgainzations.

 

Alienate the fan base. Check.

Alienate the players. Check.

Alienate Ravens fans. Check.

Alienate potential free agents. Check.

 

What have they missed?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I will take a different spin on what you said.....if Bedard is not happy with the O's as it is sign him cheap and then look to trade him......he certainly could bring in big dividends. Though I'm not saying we should look him up long term this is definetely and option considering the good year he had last year. This is also assuming we would look to replace his spot in the rotation as well.

 

That certainly is another valid approach. I guess the issue is how possible/practical is it to sign Bedard long-term? If there isn't much of a chance at all...I agree 100% with your approach. (although the $1 mil difference might not make that big of a difference when it comes to trading him). However, if there is a legitimate chance, you take care of him now and use that good-will equity when it comes to bargaining a long-term deal.

 

I think the bigger issue is this...it seems fair to say (certain posters excepted) that Baltimore has become a hard-sell for free agents and contract renewals. One way to solve this is by winning. However, another way to help is to run your operation as a first-rate one. Treat your players right. Take care of them. Let it be known that you take care of your own as best you can. Settling arbitration cases before they go through the process is one way to do that IMO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dude --

 

Not a cop out but I'm extremely busy and do not have time to go over point by point.

 

Mainly questioned why you would bring up "Thrift screwed up his service time by a whole year" if you didn't mean he would be a free agent until 2008 instead of 2009.

 

Good chance it won't go to arbitration, I agree.

But the fact that we are even talking about it and there is an in depth article in today's Sun is a bit troubling to me.

Something should have already be done by now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites