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SeaDee3

Why Helton won't be an Oriole

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I was listening to some of the talk shows on the way home and many of the callers were asking why the Orioles wern't going to get serious about Todd Helton since the Red Sox were .

 

1/ 90 mil over the next 5 years.

2/ It would mean trading a young pitcher.

3/ He is 34 years old.

4/ His power numbers come in Denver where Brian Roberts would probably hit 30 HRs.

5/ His big numbers also came during the McGuire/Sosa era.

Hmmmmmmmmmm?

6/ The Rockies would need to pay 1/2 of his salary and that isn't going to happen.

7/ His number have gone down the past 4 years and he is injury prone.

 

If you can convince Pete that under these conditions he should go after Helton you should be the next Mayor of Baltimore.

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he had hall of fame stats early in his career, but they have tailed off. some players dont age well. Do you think he was a steroid user?

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he had hall of fame stats early in his career, but they have tailed off. some players dont age well. Do you think he was a steroid user?

 

I think the timing of his decrease in production raises a lot of questions, and I'll leave it at that.

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Helton & Steroids.

 

My gut says no. His age and his back issues are the more likely cause for the slide in HR's.

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I've repeatedly ripped the FO for a history of going after guys with "career trends" similar to Todd Helton (albeit cheaper versions). The fact that they aren't rumored to be interested is encouraging! If he somehow manages to turn it around, then let someone else take that risk and reap that reward...

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I didn't realize there were any posters who thought Helton to the O's was a possibility.

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I didn't realize there were any posters who thought Helton to the O's was a possibility.

 

There aren't many, and I hope no one takes me posting on this thread as me thinking it would happen (I know you don't, wierd-o;) ).

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I was listening to some of the talk shows on the way home and many of the callers were asking why the Orioles wern't going to get serious about Todd Helton since the Red Sox were .

 

1/ 90 mil over the next 5 years.

2/ It would mean trading a young pitcher.

3/ He is 34 years old.

4/ His power numbers come in Denver where Brian Roberts would probably hit 30 HRs.

5/ His big numbers also came during the McGuire/Sosa era.

Hmmmmmmmmmm?

6/ The Rockies would need to pay 1/2 of his salary and that isn't going to happen.

7/ His number have gone down the past 4 years and he is injury prone.

 

If you can convince Pete that under these conditions he should go after Helton you should be the next Mayor of Baltimore.

 

You forgot the most important reason.....He has a no trade claus.

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he had hall of fame stats early in his career, but they have tailed off. some players dont age well. Do you think he was a steroid user?

 

No, it's injuries. Steroids can make an average hitter like McGwire a home run monster, but with Helton he wasn't just a home run hitter, he also hit for a high average.

 

That being said he's past his prime and his #'s were inflated by Coors Field. Anyone remember Dante Bichette?

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I happen to think that Helton will be an above average player ...wherever he plays the next 3-4 years. He is great in the field and he seems to be a great clubhouse guy. I also think he gives you close to .400 on base % . How many other players can say that? Sure his power is down but I would love to gave a .300 hitter that hits 25 homeruns while winning a gold glove.

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I happen to think that Helton will be an above average player ...wherever he plays the next 3-4 years. He is great in the field and he seems to be a great clubhouse guy. I also think he gives you close to .400 on base % . How many other players can say that? Sure his power is down but I would love to gave a .300 hitter that hits 25 homeruns while winning a gold glove.

 

He hasn't hit 25 HRs in the last two years ... and that's in Colorado. What makes you think he's going to suddenly hit more here?

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You forgot the most important reason.....He has a no trade claus.

That's probably a good thing - it protects us against ourselves ... :) :)

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I happen to think that Helton will be an above average player ...wherever he plays the next 3-4 years.

At $16.6M per year through 2010 and $19.1M in 2001, he had better be more than above average.

 

He is great in the field and he seems to be a great clubhouse guy.

I also think he gives you close to .400 on base % . How many other players can say that? Sure his power is down but I would love to gave a .300 hitter that hits 25 homeruns while winning a gold glove.

His HR and RBI the last two seasons are average, at best. Away from home, he is average.

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1/ 90 mil over the next 5 years.
Never understand what the arguement against getting a guy based on what he's getting paid, when you aren't responsible for a lot of it. In fact (as mis-guided as it was), the Orioles took on a player that was owed 25M for one year even though they only paid 8.85M.
2/ It would mean trading a young pitcher.
They have to trade some of them at some point. You are probably talking about one guy like Liz, plus some other secondary stuff.
3/ He is 34 years old.
Well, no he's not. He's 33. He'll be 34 in August. Soriano will be older at the end of his 8 year deal than Helton will be at the end of 5 years. People need to lose their age-phobia.
4/ His power numbers come in Denver where Brian Roberts would probably hit 30 HRs.
I look at Helton more like Abreu now. The power numbers may not get you to 35 ever again, but so what. You aren't adding him for 35 hr's, you're adding him for 25 hrs, 100 walks and a .300 avg. I'll trade 10 hrs for 60 times on base.
5/ His big numbers also came during the McGuire/Sosa era. Hmmmmmmmmmm?
So you think his crazy infection or whatever he had was caused by steroids? Doubt it.
6/ The Rockies would need to pay 1/2 of his salary and that isn't going to happen.
Well, since they already agreed with the cash included on a RedSox deal, and they were paying around half, I don't think it holds much water. Not only were the Rockies paying 40+M, they were taking on Lowell (9M) and Tavares (2/7) in the deal too.
7/ His number have gone down the past 4 years and he is injury prone.
You need to re-check those stats. He's had one bad year (2006, which still had an OPS+ of 119). It's sort of funny when someone tries to characterize a guy with a .979 OPS as stats 'going down'. While that may be technically true, an OPS over .950 is hardly a reason to bail on a guy. OPS+ 03-05: 168, 159, 144. That guy's just falling off the table.

 

There's only 2 reasons for him not to be an Oriole.

1) He wouldn't waive a no-trade. I think you can get around that.

2) The Orioles have a 'better' plan for 1B. Who knows.

 

The Rockies don't need to trade him, but they have a number of younger options in the system and can move converted 1B to OFer Brad Hawpe back to 1B or move Garrett Atkins back to 1B or push Ian Stewart to 1B and Joe Koshansky is there too. Given that they've shown a willingness to move him, it's worth the look.

 

Go O's.

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Away from home, he is average.
His career OPS away from Coors is .900.

 

The guy was deathly ill last year. At 9-10M per year, you aren't paying him for a 1.141 career Coors OPS. I'll take a guy with an .880 OPS (worse than his career road average) and take a reasonable shot at healthy stats that are better than that..

 

Go O's.

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If they get Helton say goodbye to Tex. I'm not saying I agree with it, but we all know they have a hard on for Tex and they're keeping first base and the money for him available.

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If they get Helton say goodbye to Tex. I'm not saying I agree with it, but we all know they have a hard on for Tex and they're keeping first base and the money for him available.
OK. Let's pretend that's the plan. The Dodgers, Yankees, RedSox and Angels all need 1B too. What's the chance the Orioles win in that group?

 

I want Teixeira too. Using Millar for 2 years until he becomes a FA is OK, but you better be prepared to sack up when the time comes. The best way for the Oiroles to sign Teixeira is to deal for him now and sell him on Baltimore from the inside for a year+, but the Orioles have NEVER shown an inclination to doing that. Personally, I think the Oiroles might be the one team that has a chance to keep Teixeira off the FA market, but you have to add the Boras factor in there and I was really put off by some of Teixeira's comments in a recent article on the draft.

Could they? Sure.

Will they? That has to be proven, because they've never done it.

 

Go O's.

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